Episode 5: How do I find the courage to ask for help?
This month’s question brought up so many memories of my own past pain. It touched such a raw and deep place for me personally, so much so that I cried for my younger self, and for the many people out there that have felt this very same way too: wanting help, needing help but feeling like they don’t deserve to even ask for it.
They write:
How do you find the courage to speak with a therapist or find help in ways you might need but do not feel worthy of?
The asker didn’t leave a name, so I’ve decided to name them Worthwhile.
This Month's question gets to the heart of why I love spending the many hours on creating this podcast. I want to diffuse the shame around human hurt, the hurt we all go through, so often alone…so often needlessly…simply because no one had yet been brave enough to ask the question that Worthwhile did. Mental health isn’t always discussed openly, maybe because our culture creates shame and fear around even saying, “I need help.” It is my hope that this can be that safe space.
Our guest, Ben Miller, is someone who creates safe spaces. He founded WIRTH hats, a hat company that Provides financial assistance for counseling and therapy for those unable to afford it. It was inspired by two of his close friends, who took their own lives because they felt isolated and alone, and didn’t reach out for help. WIRTH’s mission is to destigmatize conversations about mental health, to make help as available as possible to those who might need it, through the hats that serve as a reminder that when going through difficult times, there are always people to reach out to, as we are never alone as we sometimes think we are.
And make sure to tune in until the end of the episode to hear the question for next month. And if you have had the same personal experience and are interested in being a guest of that episode, OR if you have a short word of wisdom, write to us on the contact page on our Website or DM us on Instagram. And of course, please submit your questions there too.
**I want to provide a warning that this episode discusses sensitive topics such as depression and suicide. If you, or someone you know needs support, there’s help at talksuicide.ca.
Episode Resources:
Jackie Kai Ellis: Website / Instagram
Ben Miller: Instagram
More Good Media: Website / Instagram
You & I Podcast: Website
Resources on finding trusted professional help can be found here.
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INTRO:
Welcome to You & I.
I am Jackie Kai Ellis and it’s my genuine hope that through sharing our most vulnerable stories, we know, in the moments where it matters so much, that we are not alone.
DISCLAIMER:
It needs to be said, I am not a professional, just someone with some personal experience to share. I do hope this is helpful, but as always, take the advice that resonates and ignore what doesn't. And don’t hesitate to seek out professional help through a trusted source. There are resources on our website.
And I want to provide a warning that this episode discusses sensitive topics such as depression and suicide. If you, or someone you know needs support, there’s help at talksuicide.ca.
THIS MONTH’S QUESTION:
This month’s question brought up so many memories of my own past pain. It touched such a raw and deep place for me personally, so much so that I cried for my younger self, and for the many people out there that have felt this very same way too: wanting help, needing help but feeling like they don’t deserve to even ask for it.
They write:
How do you find the courage to speak with a therapist or find help in ways you might need but do not feel worthy of?
The asker didn’t leave a name, so I’ve decided to name them Worthwhile.
This question gets to the heart of why I love spending the many hours on creating this podcast. I want to diffuse the shame around human hurt, the hurt we all go through, so often alone…so often needlessly…simply because no one had yet been brave enough to ask the question that Worthwhile did. Mental health isn’t always discussed openly, maybe because our culture creates shame and fear around even saying, “I need help.” It is my hope that this can be that safe space.
GUEST:
Our guest, Ben Miller, is someone who creates safe spaces. He founded WIRTH hats, a hat company that Provides financial assistance for counseling and therapy for those unable to afford it. It was inspired by two of his close friends, who took their own lives because they felt isolated and alone, and didn’t reach out for help. WIRTH’s mission is to destigmatize conversations about mental health, to make help as available as possible to those who might need it, through the hats that serve as a reminder that when going through difficult times, there are always people to reach out to, as we are never alone as we sometimes think we are.
Here’s my conversation with Ben.
Hi, Ben. How are you doing? Hello. Hi, Jackie. Doing, doing well. Doing well. Um, thank you so much for joining me for this episode. This anonymous question, uh, the question was, How do you find the courage to speak with a therapist or find help in ways you might need?
But do not feel worthy of and so I always make up a little name for people and I named this person worthwhile, which is really appropriate because the company that you started is worth hats. Can you tell me a little bit about how you started it and why? Yeah, the short version of the long, um, so in, in, in short, um, my friend Jacob Worth took his life in, um, 2014 and, um, Jake was in the early stages of creating hat company.
And so we talk about his hat company for a bit, and he was just working on designs and, uh, I didn't know he was struggling and no one around him new to the, uh, the extent that he was. In July of 2014, he, he took his life and it was one of the first time that something like that has ever, I've ever been a part of, uh, a close person in my life, um, having taken their life by suicide.
And so it was a very hard time, but the one thing I kind of, that's just stayed with me was I was going to help him, uh, have his hat company or just have cross that off his bucket list to, for him to have, um, You know his own worth brand. So I did 25 worth hats for his closest friends and family and I gave him To his closest friends and family met his family and and each hat had a tag around jacob's dream and that you're you know We're never as alone as we sometimes think we are and we need to You know be able to reach out to people and and that's all that worth was meant to be It was just meant to be a one off, uh for those 25 hats to be created.
I had my hat and It it wasn't until 2017, uh, when I had another close friend died by suicide, that I received a message about a month after his death, um, asking if I had any more Worth Hats and that this individual would love to have one if I did. And if I didn't and never decide to make them again, he'd be first on the list to get one as it serves as a good reminder.
And Phillip's death.
And it just didn't leave my thoughts and, and in June of 2018, I decided to put Worth Hats back into the world and with a bigger message around, um, counselling and therapy and, and to support counselling for those who can't afford, but also to really break down the stigma around it as well. Had you ever experienced, um, someone close to you with depression or mental health, um, struggles before that?
You know, so... Yes, yes, in ways, but not really. Like I think as we, you know, I know for even growing up, like we don't have the, it's, it's, it was largely from, and I can only speak for myself as subject that's, it's just something you don't even, you ignore, you don't even really realize. So yes, I've would know people who are maybe struggling in ways, but it's just.
I don't think I ever had the language or the confidence or comfortability to kind of talk about it in a way. It was just always, Oh, you know, yeah, things will get better or things will, you know, it'll pass. Or I just, I think for a large part of my life, I just never had the understanding. And I, even for myself, I, my periods in my life where I've struggled and, you know, feeling very alone in that.
And, you know, I just think never having the emotional vocabulary or confidence to, to talk about it or to think that anyone else would want to talk about it. Like I always, I always, for myself anyways, viewed it as, and I'm aware that it was never, it was not even a conscious thing, but like it, why would I share a weakness or something that's not good about me?
No one wants to hear about that. Or that's not like a, there's nothing good about sharing that. So why would I ever share that? Um, Yeah, so do you think that comes from the way that you were raised, whether it's from your family or from culture because I, I personally do think that men. Gen in general are raised in such a way where it is a lot harder to talk about weakness and There's a lot more stigma.
I think talking about your emotions and things like that. Yeah, I think You know it is interesting where I again a lot of this wasn't a conscious choice like it was or a conscious thought of like Oh, it was just built within me. And so that's it, you know Yes, upbringing for sure. And how parents model behavior and being able to kind of, uh, you know, understand from a younger age, what's going on within you.
Like, I always kind of say that I, I believe we make life a lot harder than it needs to be. And I think that's around, you know, from a younger, young age, we don't, we're not really equipped with. the tools and the language around what's going, what's going on and how to express that. Like, I don't, I never felt like I had the, The space growing up to share, you know what I was feeling, right?
You know, you don't even know what you're feeling at that at that age. You don't even know what's you just know that like Oh, this doesn't feel good, but you don't know if that's not normal or what's normal what's not like it's so you just try and persist you're like, you know, and And I go, okay, you just try and go forward in any way.
And so, um, yeah, back to the question of I've, you know, I've definitely had different friends and people who've, who struggled, but it wasn't really until my journey through worth, where I really started to understand what that. For myself and for those around me what that kind of means to, you know, to be vulnerable or to, to ask for support or, um, to provide that support for others.
And how, how has WIRTH taught you that? If you could think of one moment where the idea of being vulnerable crystallized, what would you say that was, if you could? Yeah, so I, I share a story. Um, it was, so this was before Worth was like brought back into the world. Um, I'd moved back to Vancouver and I had a, uh, a friend who I'd always looked up to this particular individual.
I always like, I'm like, Oh, I just. Really looked up to him thought they were really cool. They always, you know, um, a big part of the community in ways. And, and I remember he, he had a book up around counseling in his, in his office. And, and, uh, I just, oh, that, that looks interesting. And he started to talk about counseling.
He said, Ben, you know what? It's interesting. I've always in the past, I'm a very open person in the sense. If I'm going for lunch, I'll share, I'm going for lunch. If I'm going to the physio, I'll share, I'm going to the physio or whatever I'm doing. I'll share that. But when it came to counseling, going to see a counselor, I would always, I would never share.
It would always be this something else. I was doing something else. And, and I just decided one day that I'm going to share that, you know, I've seen a counselor, uh, for many years and. Um, it's, it's had a tremendous impact on me and it was, it was honestly that moment where in my head at that time, I was like, Wait, this, this person, he, he sees a counselor, like what you have every like in my mind, it's like you have it all like you are, like, I look at you and you're a role model in ways of who I would want to be.
And I just those two things didn't correlate to me. Like I still, even after in ways of Jacob's death, I still didn't fully realize for myself. And it was that moment where this individual sharing that they they've seen a counselor, they've talked to a counselor. Was enough for me to go. I was going through some things at the time to go and talk to someone.
I went and talked to the counselor that they, uh, go and see. And that was my gateway into. Uh, experiencing counseling for the first time, experiencing seeking professional help. And I've always tried to carry that forward. And I've always remembered that it has such a huge impact just to share. If you're going to see a counselor, if you're someone who does see a counselor, just sharing that, Oh, I have a counseling appointment at 3 p.
m. today, like in your every day to day conversations. And I do it. I do it all the time. If I'm, I, I'm not, I don't hide it in any way because it is. It is just human. Like I, it is so human. And so just through worth, I like view it almost as the opposite. It's like it's, I find it, it it crazy if, if you don't go see a counselor, if you don't seek support because like the, the, the thought of going at life alone and like in a way that's like without, you know, yes there's friends and, and talking friends, but like, not to have someone in your corner who you go and have that like just.
Absolute intention that this is your time for that hour, however long it is like, that's the place where we need to get to where that is completely normal. It's like very unnormal to like, to have it where we're not going and talking to someone and, and, and that's what it's something from a young age.
And it goes back to like, if we had that from a young age, I do believe that life would be. You know, it would still be challenging and hard, but we'd have the tools and, and the knowledge and the vulnerability to kind of, to go at it in a way that would cause a lot less long term pain overall. Totally agree.
I, I share all the time that I go to a therapist and, and I don't even, I don't know actually if I remember a time. When I felt ashamed about that because I always felt like education is always going to be beneficial and really going to a counselor is like getting the ultimate education on yourself and who you are and what ails you and what makes you drive and, and I do feel like they provide the tools to be able to find who you are and instead of it being this monumental thing that most people shouldn't be doing.
I totally agree, I think. Every single person, whether you're feeling on top of the world or at the very, very depths of whatever you're going through should actually be going to see some sort of, um, person that can reflect back to them or just lend an ear. That's it. Totally. Like proactive, uh, soul searching is so crucial because in those moments it's when you, uh, not only can survive.
or learn how to survive, but you can actually get the tools to learn how to reach further and thrive and go like, as far as you want to go in whatever you want to do. Totally. I, yeah, you can, I say that whether you're at your best or your worst and everywhere in between, I'm like, it's, it's beneficial to go and talk to someone.
And then there's finding that right person in the right fit and what. You know what serves you that can be sometimes a little bit, you know, figuring that out and, you know, someone who you really connect with that can take a bit of time, but it's just The first step is finding one or a couple of people that you can go and chat with.
And yeah, it's just going to have a huge, huge impact. I, I, um, I lost my father a couple of years ago and it was like, we, I talk a lot with worth bulking proactive, you know, trying to as best we can, like, you know, trying to be proactive with your mental health and, and just, you know, maintenance and just checking in and, and.
You know, it's just much harder when the barn's burning in a way, or if you're, or if you're starting to really fall down to like, try and pick yourself back up. Um, but I, knowing my dad was going to pass, I started to start to see a counselor a couple months in advance of just around that specific, my dad's death.
And just preparing, like trying to like, you know, just like, okay, like there's, there's a tremendous amount of sadness and grief that will come and, but it's like, how, what do I need to do to try and be in this grief, be a part of it, not run from it, learn from it, in it. So it was, it was tremendously, tremendously valuable to like.
You know, start talking about and seeing counselor before he passed and just the things that, you know, you know, that I kind of took from that going into the whole grieving period. Yeah, I mean it, it almost makes you better at being present in the midst of groundbreaking fear, fear of death, right? Like, it's so that's, I think that's probably one of the hardest things to be present when you're just scared.
I mean, I don't know, I mean, this is my podcast and I don't even know if I'm allowed to swear in my own podcast. Isn't that so weird? It's like the first time I've thought about that. But I remember my dad, um, he went to Japan and had a stroke there and I was in France, living in France at the time. And when I finally, months later, got to see him, I couldn't actually look him in the eyes.
And I was like, this is so weird. Why? And so I did a bit of soul searching and I realized that the thought of losing him. was so paralyzing that I subconsciously was trying to detach and walk away by not looking at him anymore. And I thought to myself, I will be living only half of life if I choose to divorce myself from the pain that comes with love.
It's so crazy what we do but I mean, that's why proactive counseling is is so crucial. It helps us to understand those moments and be present in them and make the most of them and kind of milk life as much as we can, I guess. Yeah, and just like I think to what you You start to kind of, I think over time to you, you know, there's lots of things that can bring us pain or memories or in the moment and, and you start to kind of develop a bit of the muscle around, well, there's like just understanding that the edges soften a little bit as you go into these things, like as if you're going into grief or going into something that's like very hard.
you realize every time it takes courage, like every time you're doing that, it'll always take courage. And that's, that's, but you, you start to remember like, okay, once I, once I'm in it, the edges start to soften. And I just, you know, I start to breathe through whatever it is or whatever I'm facing. And that, that, that pain, um, it's, it's just kind of, um, yeah, you just kind of, you're able to kind of handle it in a, in In a way that also allows you to change your relationship with it at times of like, what is it that you're trying to want me to know here, you know, like, I think even like that when you get to place you're like, pain is just.
Something that's, it's wanting to tell you something, you know, it's wanting to share something with you in a way. And it's like, we avoid it, like try and push it away or run away from it. Or like, it doesn't feel good. And that's pretty human, but it's just all it is. It's just like asking for some attention and it speaks louder and louder.
And if you, if you're not giving attention and you start to like, even though it takes constant, like even for. You know, for myself, it's like, oh, right. Okay. Like it takes courage. You're like, okay, what are you trying to, wow, I really, I really love my dad in a deep, deep, deep, deep way. And I can imagine going living without him or whatever that, that is on the other side of it is usually something pretty good.
I mean, it's, it's connection on all levels, which is never a bad thing. Like that is the essence of life is just connection to other people to connection to ourselves. And. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, I say like, you know, with my journey through worth and through, you know, I'm, I'm in the world in a way of mental health conversations all the time, but ultimately all it leads to is greater connection.
You know, it's like the conversations I've have and the journey of worth, like what it's given me is just greater connection to the world, greater relationships. And by being open or sharing or being vulnerable. It's just going to bring people closer to you. And, and create greater connection and people feeling more comfortable around you.
I've learned that and that was for the many, many, many years of growing up. I thought it was the opposite, you know, that I always believed or unconsciously it's like, well, if I share that stuff, it's going to push people away or people won't like me or um, people will think I'm, I'm not cool or whatever it is.
It's like, no, it actually has the opposite effect. Yeah, I totally agree. Let's go back to Jacob, because now I hear you, and I just wonder if, do you ever wonder what you would have done differently if you know what you know now and could go back in time. Yeah. I, so it's, you know, when I think of even to worth, like one of the things I do believe both Jake and Phillip could be here if worth was around when they were around with this, which is like, they were aware of it and what we're, what we're trying to do in the conversations.
Like, I think both of them would have had the courage to kind of, to open up and talk and, and, and seek support, um, for myself. And with Jacob, um, it's just about being, yeah, what I would have been a little more inquisitive, I would have been a little more just honest and real, like I, again, for mental health conversations have become a part of my kind of weekly, in a way, vocabulary, or sometimes daily and, and for myself, the most Um, meaningful thing that's come from worth personally is close friends, people in my world, people who I haven't talked to in 10 years or so coming forward and, and sharing that they're struggling, you know, it happens all the time with me and I'm incredibly honored and grateful that, uh, that happens, but it's because they feel safe and And that goes back to the story I was sharing about my friend who was willing to share he had seen a counselor when the people around you or when someone has to go first in a way, like, and it takes courage to share, because people know some of the struggles I've been through.
They feel safe because of they know I created worth they feel safe to come forward and you know I would hope back then with Jacob my way of being in the world and talking and sharing would have been differently Which would have opened up a space for him to be able to feel comfortable to share what he's going through God, that's like kind of heartbreaking.
Sorry. Yeah I mean, I know we're not supposed to like go back and think about what ifs and stuff I mean, we're not supposed to whatever we're supposed to what is supposed to but You Yeah, it's just, it just makes me so sad actually just to think of, of all the people out there that do feel that alone and do feel shame around sharing or shame around just being exactly who they are in that moment.
So, yeah, I just, that, that really gets to me I think, and it is really the purpose of why. Wanted to start this podcast is because I remember, sorry, I'm, I just remember in the depths of my depression when I was considering suicide myself, the only person that I had, or thought that I had in my corner was my ex husband.
And I still remember, there were days that I couldn't get out of bed. And he would, I think he just thought. Okay. She's been in bed for so long now. I just need her to get out of bed. So he would actually pick me up and carry me out of bed with my blanket and everything. And just say to me, just do your best today.
Just do the absolute minimum if that's your best. And I just remember even to this day, feeling so grateful that I had one person that I felt like I could. And ultimately, I just think that, and I've had people in my life, um, uh, commit suicide as well. And I just think, did they believe that they didn't even have one person?
And that, that thought makes me sad. And I, I, I want this. This episode in this podcast to be a siren and a megaphone for people to know that they aren't alone and that most people have actually felt this. And gone through this and this is actually probably the majority versus the minority and we're just talking about it because of shame.
Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, it's for anyone like when you've been in that state, you know, it's like you can, what's the most one of the most challenging things like, you know, when you're outside of it, you can be like, yeah, I, you know, I, this is what I should do when you're in it. You just feel that. You know, that's where it takes that courage part, it can take a lot of courage to speak to someone or ask.
I was actually so, let's share this story, I was with him the other day and I was so amazed. One of my best friends growing up, he started to have a substance abuse or alcohol addiction and I get this text from him and he says, Hey Ben, I've started to get back on abusing alcohol again. Can you text me every three to four days?
I'm committed to stopping. Can you ask me every three to four days? Have you been, have you been sober since June 23rd? And just do a question mark. That's all I need. I need you to text me every three or four days. I was And I said, I'd like, you know, absolutely, man, like, um, and I just put in my calendar every three days.
I'd send him a text and, but I was just so amazing. I was, we met up because he was away when he was, he asked me for this and he's back now we met up in person and I was, that is so rare for someone to do. And I was telling them, so I'm like the shame of letting your friend know that you're back on, you're having an issue again to feeling that you are a bother.
You may be a bother for a friend that, that you're in so many levels. And I was like, man, that took so much courage. And like, I just want to applaud you. That was. Yeah, it was incredible, like, for him to, he could easily not have done that, but he recognized, like, accountability is such a big part for me to kick this, to help me kick this and get back, um, to being sober again, and I, like, I think that, like, you know, that was an example of, to, it's, it's so challenging, or at times it can be so challenging to reach out, I was amazed, and just, like, that, that he was willing to do that.
And I think the thing is like, why I'm so amazed is a lot of people aren't willing to do that because of shame, because of fear that I'm going to be a bother. And like, like, I think anyone who receives a message like that, they're filled with gratitude that you chose them to be that person. Um, yeah, that like, I don't know, it was, it took such courage and leadership.
So that was just a little story where, and he's, you know, he's back. You know, it hasn't frankincense and then that's I was just amazed the courage that it took. And I think, but also maybe I, that's an issue that I am amazed that much like the fact that like, I don't know, that's why I maybe I'm battling my head.
Like, I think it was amazing. He did that. Um, But you just don't see many people in that way reaching out, like, hey, can you message me every three to four days and ask me, am I sober? Like that's, that's pretty amazing. Um, and what, when we talk about connection, what did that do for, like, it just brought us closer together.
And the, the irony is like from the outside, someone might say that, you know, because of addictions and all that. They might say he's weak, but actually that is the strongest thing that someone could have ever done. It's, it's the most courageous, it's the most vulnerable, it's bearing yourself completely naked to someone who you want their approval, you know, and, and you're saying, I need help.
And I think asking for help, being someone who's like, so fiercely. Independent to a fault like it actually gets in my way because I, I lose out on so many things in life and so many experiences in life because I've been telling myself this false story of independence and the pride that comes along with it.
But I wish I could be that strong to be that vulnerable to say to someone, I don't want to be alone in this because I'm not going to make it if I'm alone. Like I need you like, like it's mind blowing what he did. Yeah. No, it's so much respect. Yeah. A lot. And again, it's, yeah, it just all, all it does is for our relationship, it just grew our relationship.
What are your thoughts about shame? Um, yeah, it can get in the way of a lot of things. Um, yeah, like it's, and it can be pretty sneaky, I think too. Like we talked about for a long, a long time in the sense that I think it has a tremendous impact on people reaching out, um, people not getting support, um, people not willing to talk.
Thank you. It can carry the weight of the world on a lot of people's shoulders. It's one that's, it takes with like most, a lot of this, it takes like an, an act of courage to, to, to look at it or to try and share, talk about it. One pretty vulnerable piece for me when I've had struggled the most with, um, depression and it was around like performance anxiety.
In my, Throughout my 20s and and it was just like the shame there was a shame there and it's like and I but I and again I've that was the thing I've always felt I felt so alone in it and I thought I was like the only one or only person at that time and that I was something was wrong with me. Um, you know, the.
The shame in sharing that or talking about it was, you know, could be pretty, pretty debilitating or even with partners or anything it goes back to, for me, overriding that a bit was a story around just another friend who was willing to write an article about it, about his own journey. And that was what kind of opened it up for me and gave me the courage to.
To again, like to just be able to move through it, but also like come out the other side in certain ways and allow it to be a source of strength to, um, to have really human conversations around, around it. And, and shame is one that can be pretty debilitating if we let it just take control. Yeah, I saw on your website that you had defined worth and so I, I was curious the definition of shame.
It says a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior. And I thought that was so fascinating because what we label as wrong or foolish is actually so arbitrary. Yeah. What we, what we define as wrong, go to another culture and it's completely just fine.
And we've made it wrong and people feel unlovable or I shouldn't say people, I should say me, I feel like I'm wrong. I feel like I'm unlovable. If I do these quote, shameful things that are culture or whatever external force has like defined wrong for us or foolish for us. Yeah. So if we go to this asker, I've named him worthwhile.
Um, he says, how do you find the courage to speak with a therapist or find help in ways you might need, but don't feel worthy of? What would you say to this asker to worthwhile? Yeah. It's again, going back to when you're in it, when you don't feel worthy, it's like, it can feel so challenging. I think it just like a part of me goes to like, just take one step.
And then see how that feels and then just take another step and see how that feels and like, you know, each know that there's fear I was, um, I, when I was reading the question, I was kind of reminded of, um, I've done a fair bit of improv theater in the, in the past. And there's a quote from Del Close, who's a famous, um, improviser while he was a teacher who, you know, taught Tina Fey and Chris Farley and Mike Myers and a variety of different people, but it would be, it was around follow the fear it will.
Lead to the beneficial things and I just think as more people have heard, there is, there is not good. The courage can't happen without fear. And that's why it's tough. It's like if you're able just to do something that's not usually, there's not courage there because it's, if you're hesitant to do it, that's where the fear and that's where it's like overriding that and having courage to go and talk to someone and to share whatever that what may be going on for you.
And so just acknowledging that, like, yeah, there's fear there and that is. Completely. Okay. And fear encouraged our, our go hand in hand. And so if you take one step at a time, like things will just be become start to become easier. It's just that it's five years ago, six years ago, or whatever. Maybe it's more now, like there was a lot of fear to go and speak to a counselor.
You know, what is this? It's uncertain. What is this going to look like? What is this, what are we going to uncover? What will I have to share? And, and it can feel just like. Again, the thought of sharing that I had performance anxiety or like that, that where there was issues I was having there, it was like, felt like a knife being like I was being stabbed and what it took was just sharing a little bit and then sharing a little more and just taking those steps and all of a sudden realizing that like.
Oh, I don't have to carry that weight and, oh, there's so much positivity that comes on the other side of this. So yeah, that's what I, uh, but I do think the biggest one is just acknowledging that there's fear and that will be okay. Like Yeah, and I think that oftentimes, there's this very Hollywood movie idea of what courage looks like, like, it's supposed to be some person that's so sure of themselves, that doesn't have a doubt that they just, you know, walk right into that situation.
And I don't know for me, courage is usually has not looked like that. It's always probably second, second guessing myself until the very last second. And then I'm like, do I do it or do I not do it? You know? And it's, it's, it always feels like you're the most fearful person in the entire world at the decision point that you don't feel courageous, but that the feelings themselves do not define who you are.
It's the actions that do. Yeah. Yeah. Like I just, as you're saying that, I just reflect of like, it's, oh, you know, having this conversation, that having conversation you don't want to have, or whatever, and like, oh, how's it going to turn out? And there's, there's a rule at some, or not a rule, someone put out there, but like when you're at times going to, If there's something that you're, you know, scared of, or like three seconds, five seconds where you just like, go do it before your brain starts to kick in, where you're just all of a sudden taking action, you know, like action leads, leads to growth.
And so what is that action step that you need to take, you know, our brain will love to find its way of getting in there and, and, and sharing all the reasons why it shouldn't be, or the fears. And, you know, it's, it's, yeah, it happens, it happens a lot. And so, but just, just trusting. trusting in the process and trusting that it'll be okay.
Uh, but I'm just, if I take this one action step and then this other action step and just let one thing lead to another and just trust, just trust. Yeah. It doesn't need to be this huge leap off a cliff. It can just be taking the stairs down. Um, the thing that really strikes me in this, in this asker's question is that they don't feel worthy.
Yeah, I was doing a, I was doing a talk a few months back at a high school and I'd say that was the number one thing to that would prevented people from students from reaching. I was like, they don't think what they have was worthy. Of help or like that it was that it was too small, like they were, even though they were struggling with it, like that they're taking up space and time for this thing that they believed wasn't worthy.
And I, and I think it's a very common thing you hear a lot that like, oh, why, like, you know, why should I be bothering someone with this or this is so insignificant compared to whatever else is going on in the world or whatever it may be. And, and I, you know, I think it's like. Just again, working to try and let go of that.
Those that narrative. Um, and, you know, we actually, we're going through a bit of a rebranding, uh, of worth here. And one of our kind of lines we're going with is like, worthy as worthy as you are. And, um, and I go back to, you know, where I believe like Jacob and Philip would both be here if they were felt like they're worthy as they were, you know, yes, there's maybe things we want to grow and develop and but it's, it's, you need to, you need to truly believe that, you know, you're worthy of support.
And it's human, it's so human and again, that belief that like to go at life alone or to go at life without it, without it is like, that's what should seem like the more crazy, like the more wild thing, like, you know, you are worthy. And, and get that, get that support, whatever it may be, whatever, you know, whatever you view it as, maybe viewed as small, it doesn't matter.
Like it's, it's important to you. So, so chat, chat with someone about it and, and cause you're worthy of that support, worthy of the help. What is your go to action step when you're feeling unworthy, um, or does it differ in each situation? I would say like my go to when I'm out of sorts, or just, just like my head is head is going in a lot of different directions is like a, like I will sit down and I will just start to focus my breath and I will just allow to feel, I'll just feel what's there.
I'll feel all the different voices, I'll feel the different feelings and the tightness in this one part of my body or the area. And I will just, just trust and, you know, believe that. Things will be okay here. And I also for myself of late, like I try and with the different things and the many things I've gone through in the last while with people passing away is, uh.
To be able to smile at life and not take it too seriously at times and that things will happen and it's not worth getting too stressed about or stress. Like, it really is not worth it. Like, um, yeah, I think one of the things you hear as when you talk or when I've talked to like. older people who are different regrets.
It's like, I just, I wish I didn't stress so much about this, or I wish I wasn't so hard on myself for this. And that's what I will try and we'll look at of just some of the lightness and gratitude or the, you know, keep it really simple. Yeah. I remember I was talking to one of my best friends and we both have this habit of Of overthinking and overanalyzing and trying to dig ourselves so deep into that issue that the digging becomes an issue like so it was sort of this hope that I had for both of us that there's this image of someone trying to cross a pond.
And they're like lily pads on top of the pond. And if you have fun with it, and you just lightly step on every single one and go quickly and dance across, you'll get across but if you stand there. And start analyzing, you know, how you got there and why, and you're just sinking on that one lily pad. But just to keep on going and just keep a lightness to your movements and your attitudes.
And I can't say that I've been successful at this all the time. Sometimes I am, but I keep that image in my mind. Sometimes when I. I feel like I'm just sinking that it's, this is not everything in life. This moment is not everything. And the longer I stay in this moment, how much more good am I actually doing?
For myself. I mean, there are moments when we really do have to dig in and we have to stay there and feel and go to the depths of it. Um, but for me, at least as a chronic overthinker, I'd say those moments are way less than when I actually do them. Yeah. It's, it's definitely times where I can, I go back to like, Hey, what's the, what's the action thing?
Or even just the other day I was feeling, I was feeling, uh, not great and I just. I went to go meet up with some family, but, uh, in Fort Langley, so about 45 minutes away. And I just, it was, I had a conversation, uh, with my step mom and that conversation, it was like, wow. Oh, again, I almost forgot that I was feeling that I just had, I got out of my head, you know, I just got on my head and I was able to just to, to chat and to talk and, and to laugh.
And yeah, because when we're just ruminating on things, sometimes it can, it can start to just. spiral and just be hard. Yeah. I think especially when I'm lately, I've been dealing a lot with, or challenging a lot, this idea of self worth and realizing how much my lack of self worth affects every part of my life and how little I feel And ownership to the space that I take up in the world and sometimes I think not asking for help is also connected to this because you don't feel like you even deserve the space that you take up physically.
How can you deserve to take up someone else's space. Mm hmm. Yeah. I look at times I like reflect in words and it's just like, okay, there's a layer for me, I'd say of, you know, fairly confident. And there's actually a pretty strong layer of like, all these insecurities and these not worthy in that. And then I like go deep down below and find there's actually another layer down there that is more like really authentic, true.
And it's like tapping to that deeper layer and be like, no, you know, I'm worthy of this. Um, I can get through this, that courage part that's, this may be hard and I, and I can get through it. You have the support around you, you just need to reach out. Any last words for Worthwhile, our asker? To Worthwhile, um...
Feel free to reach out to me if you ever want a conversation around, you know, my journey and always willing and open to support someone to try and find a, uh, counselor that they think would be a good fit. And, um, that's what worth is worth is about of is, you know, trying to find that support and breaking down some of that stigma, those stigmas and barriers around that.
So, um, yeah, for worthwhile, you have me in your corner. If you, if you want me, if you want worth to be in your corner. That's awesome. Thank you so, so much for your time and for your, um, just sharing your experiences and for your vulnerability. I super appreciate it. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks so much, Jackie.
LETTER TO THE ASKER:
Dear Worthwhile,
The first time I asked for help with my depression, it was shortly after I had done an internet search on suicide. As I typed, “painless ways to commit suicide,” or maybe it was after I saw what came up on my screen, my mind became sober and clear for a singular moment, as if I was watching myself and I could see just how utterly wrong it all was.
I needed help, I could see that, because up to that point, whatever I had tried on my own, hadn’t worked. I had never seen a therapist before, and being from a culture that saw therapy as taboo, I remember not knowing where to begin. So I booked an appointment for a check up with my family doctor, the only person I thought would know of a therapist I could call.
When the day came to see this therapist, it was a mixture of fear, relief and disbelief that anything could help me. I thought I was too far gone. And even now as I write these words, with the distance of time and having now climbed up the mountain a little, with a slightly better view, it baffles and saddens me that I once thought I was so unsaveable, and that life was too. I’m heartbroken for that young woman, the one who hurt so badly that her insides felt like they were being wrung out like a wet towel. Her depression was thick and dark…she was suffocating under the weight of who she thought she had to be, to be worthy of life. And remembering all this makes me want to hold her firmly by the shoulders, look her in the eyes and say, “I just wish you knew how loved you actually are! I just wish you knew how precious and irreplaceable and worthwhile you are.” I wish I could have told her back then, because she needed to know it so badly.
But, looking back, I also see that I didn’t need to, because, with the help of the therapist, that young woman eventually learned to say it to herself, and later, she began to believe it too. There’s no doubt, therapy saved my life…no, therapy gave me the space and skills to save my own life. And I know that if I hadn’t gone, I would not have been able to experience all the joys that came afterwards.
I wouldn’t have had the emotional space to be so moved by the infinite colours in a sunset, or spend a half hour trying to name them all. I wouldn’t have been able to close my eyes, enjoy the warmth of the sun on my face, blinded by the hot orange on the inside of my gently closed eyes. Or sit by the fire, breathing in the mumbling of good conversation around me in the backyard of a home I made, one that I intentionally created so that anyone who entered, could feel “home” too. I wouldn’t have been able to create that very “home” for my baby, with the snakes and the turtles and rabbits on the kitchen wallpaper, and the lions to which he points and says, “rrrrrr.”
I wouldn’t have had these moments because either I wouldn’t be here, or I would have stayed in that tunnel where everywhere was the end and there was no light.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not making a convenient before and after comparison, life doesn’t work like that, as I now know. My life is still far from perfect, despite what can be so commonly depicted in the highlights of social media. 140 characters cannot spell the entirety of our lives, so I want to dispel the myth of perfection here and now, for anyone.
I still struggle with depression today, though it is not the same, not as dark, and the heaviness doesn’t confuse me as it used to. I’ve come to accept that my depression will come and go, like storms, but that I am now a skilled sailor. I can see that the storms return often when I am not taking the time to connect to myself, when I sail without steering and the ocean carries me far away, or when I fight the direction of the tide, believing I could control anything outside of my own boat.
I want you to know that I’m struggling now too. I wake up some mornings and feel nothing but dread. Lately, I find it hard to feel joy, or connect to my desires. My mind feels like it’s swallowing me whole and, though I want to be present, I am lost in the world of worry and what ifs. And as I share this so you might know you’re not alone, and so that you won’t be afraid, if you are. Though, I warn you that this might be a very light retelling of a very complex and vulnerable part of my life, one that I’m not done parsing through.
The feeling of malaise began about a year after I sold my bakery. I had chosen to slow down, something didn’t feel right, and I think slowing down gave space for feelings to surface without my usual distractions. By the time it deepened into a depression, the feeling had mounted into an intense anxiety, my body constantly in a state of alarm, sweating, holding my breath for what felt like years, holding my breath in preparation for drowning in the waters of the unknown. I was living in Paris at the time, and I stayed at home for weeks, rarely venturing out because I was so exhausted and the anxiety paralyzed me.
In the stillness, I realized that I had been running so fast and hard, (doing more, experiencing more, traveling more, adding more titles (and fairly, a part of it was just the joy of living, of creating, and me expressing who I am) But another part of me was scared of depression, terrified of feeling so sad again, resisting the feeling of finding myself in that cage again. The memories from that time were so painful, it hurt to think about, so I had tried to outrun the fear. And yet, I’ve found that things we run from are like shadows, cast by us, there wherever we go.
I also felt, unconsciously at the time, ashamed that the melancholy had started to come back, defeated by something I thought I had rid myself of. After having written about depression in my book, in which there was a “before and after,'' happy ending, I think, at some point, I gradually shifted from being genuinely happy, to feeling as if I owed it to others to be happy. You see, the expectations of others had subtly seeped in. The desire to be worthy of acceptance was triggered. My old people-pleasing habits had kicked in. I was no longer steering my own boat and allowing the waves of the world to toss me around.
And, after my son was born, postpartum and the pressures of motherhood had lent another complex layer onto the depression.
Needless to say, I’ve reached out to my therapist consistently over the years. And in that safe space, I’ve been learning, again, lessons that have helped me navigate my life. These, I want to share with you:
That it’s ok to struggle, it’s human, it’s natural, it means you’re living. Because shadows only exist when we are brave enough to explore the light.
That the storms do pass, and we learn to be better sailors each time, but we also cannot and should not sail alone.
That my life has been so much richer because I’ve reached out for help. Not only because I have been profoundly changed by the love I’ve received from my friends in my weakest moments, but also because the people I love felt they could do the same when they were struggling.
That you are worthy, because I am. That there isn’t some metric that makes some of us worthy, and others not. That there’s no test we must pass, or amount of money in our bank account, or designer body, that can buy us something like “worth.” I need to believe that this thing we all desperately want, to be worthwhile, that it is precious, unpurchaseable, that it can’t be cheapened by something like what car we drive. And that worth is born in every single one of us, like a beating heart.
That while there may not be a happy ending, there is a good one. Because we can learn to sail our own boats and we will land in a place of our own choosing.
END:
Thank you all for joining me for this episode of You & I and thank you [Ben] for your conversation and your openness, and for inspiring someone to reach out to someone in the moments they feel most alone.
It was such a pleasure to explore your question, [Worthwhile]. I hope you got something helpful out of this…I do hope you reach out for help. If anything, just know that you’re not alone. You see, we all struggle, mourn, yearn, question, laugh and cry. No matter our age, background, or titles, at our core, we are all not so different, You & I.
TEASE NEXT MONTH’S Q:
And here is next month’s interview question. A short and simple one from Instagram:
How can I find passion?
OUTRO: [music]
If you feel inspired to respond to this asker wondering how to find passion in their lives, and are interested in being a guest of this episode, OR if you have a short word of wisdom for them, write to us on the contact page on youandipodcast.com or DM us on instagram at @youandi.podcast. And of course, please submit your questions there too.
If you enjoyed this episode, like and subscribe to our channel, which helps others who might be interested, find us. And feel free to share this episode with someone who may find it helpful as well. Thank you for joining us today. I’m Jackie Kai Ellis, and here are some words of wisdom.