Episode 1: How to explore a new career (despite financial risks)?
Welcome to the first episode of You&I an advice podcast exploring the questions we’ve all asked ourselves.This months question comes from a place where most of us have been, and yet it doesn’t dilute the feelings of confusion, anxiety, feelings of being lost and yearning for a dream that has not yet crystalized.
They write..
How to figure out your next career (despite financial risks)?
Recently impacted by a layoff, I'm contemplating how to start over or "pivot" into a new career field. I've been wanting to shift careers for years, and now have a true impetus to figure out what's next (I felt stuck due to "golden handcuffs" and lack of clarity on what else I could do). I'm having difficulty finding a north star. I admire all the different careers you've had -- many of which, I aspire to be, if not for the financial risks. Would appreciate any advice you have on finding a new career. Thank you.
Wisdom Seeker
Jackie is sitting down with her good friend and go-to person when she is feeling stuck, Sandra Birkenhead, to dive into how they have navigated these moments in their own lives and offer their own wisdom on the subject. Jackie and Sandra also touch on imposter syndrome, working through financial stories and fear, lifting the pressure to find the perfect career, creating space for curiosity during career pivots and so many other beautiful tangents. We hope you enjoy this episode!
And make sure to tune in until the end of the episode to hear the question for next month. And if you have had the same personal experience and are interested in being a guest of that episode, OR if you have a short word of wisdom, write to us on the contact page on our Website or DM us on Instagram. And of course, please submit your questions there too.
*Correction: Jackie and Sandra met in 2005, not 1995 as was recorded in the episode
**It needs to be said, I am not a professional, just someone with some personal experience to share. I do hope this is helpful, but as always, take the advice that resonates and ignore what doesn't. And don’t hesitate to seek out professional help through a trusted source. We’ve provided links here in case they are needed -JKE
Episode Resources:
Jackie Kai Ellis: Website / Instagram
Sandra Birkenhead (The Budding Elm Counselling Services): Website / Instagram
You & I Podcast: Website
Resources on finding trusted professional help can be found here.
-
Speaker1: Welcome to you and I, an advice podcast exploring the questions we've all asked ourselves. I'm Jackie Ellis and it's my genuine hope that through sharing our most vulnerable stories, we know in the moments where it matters so much that we're actually not alone. I loved this month's question because it's a place where most of us have been, and yet it doesn't dilute the feelings of confusion, anxiety, feelings of being lost and yearning for a dream that has not yet come to pass. They write recently impacted by a layoff. I'm contemplating how to start over or pivot into a new career. I've been wanting to shift careers for years and now have a true impetus to figure out what's next. I felt stuck due to golden handcuffs and lack of clarity on what else I could do. I'm having difficulty finding a North Star. I admire all the different careers you've had, many of which I aspire to be, if not for the financial risks. Would appreciate any advice you have on finding a new career. Thank you, wisdom Seeker. Thank you wisdom Seeker, for your question. It needs to be said, I'm not a professional, just someone with some personal experience to share. I really do hope this podcast is helpful, but as always, you are the expert in your own life. Take the advice that resonates and just ignore what doesn't and really don't hesitate to seek out professional help through a trusted source. We have some links on our website in case you need them. And don't forget to tune in later where we will share next month's question.
Speaker1: So if you have had the same experience as the question asker, we encourage you to send in your story or your words of wisdom for consideration for that episode. Since it's my very first episode and we haven't yet had a chance for listeners to write in with their own stories. And I haven't had a chance to invite a listener on as my guest. I thought it would be the perfect way to kick off this podcast with someone that I've personally gone to advice for the last 20 years. She's one of my best friends. My first guest's name is Sandra Birkenhead. When we first met, she was a high school drama teacher and I was a junior designer at a firm in Vancouver. It was 1995. We had both signed up for a running clinic and we would run together. Really? I held her hostage while I droned on and on about how I wanted to leave my job. And Sandra was too out of breath to put up a fight. Though we stopped running together. We never stopped talking, especially about the things that mattered most. She is my go to person when I'm feeling stuck and I'm really glad and excited. You have a chance to meet this amazing woman. Okay, So this is the very first episode of this podcast, and I think that I need to address the elephant in the room, which is I am so nervous. Like I'm so nervous. My heart is racing and I feel like my voice is wiggly. Is it wiggly? I feel like.
Speaker2: It's not wiggly. You're sounding like you. You're sounding like you.
Speaker1: Okay. I also know that, you know, you're nervous because this is not something that you normally do. No. And also, we have recently been talking a lot about imposter syndrome.
Speaker2: Yeah.
Speaker1: And how we're both feeling that so profoundly at this period of our lives, for whatever reason. Obviously, it comes up and goes away. It's like ocean waves. It kind of like goes in and out, right? So I want to do a tiny little like. Ease the tension of this nervousness and just like acknowledge that both of us are feeling imposter syndrome, that both of us are feeling nervous. And that is actually in there is enough space here for us to feel all these things and yet be very present with this amazing question that we have. I don't know. How do you feel about what I just said? Because I feel like I just went on a little bit of a rant.
Speaker2: No, no. Well, I just want to say, as soon as you started talking, I was like, um. I just this I have this every time I sort of go on Instagram and I see something that you're doing that we don't talk about in our conversations, and all of a sudden I'm like, Wait, you have a TV show? Wait.
Speaker1: Because we talk about things that really, really matter to us, like the TV show and the podcast and all that. That's just the stuff that I'm doing. But the stuff that's really important to me is like my personal development and this is why we've been friends for so long. What you care about the most too?
Speaker2: Yeah. And I want to I want to say that because my nervousness started to go down because I just feel such admiration for you. I'm really like. And just even the fact that you acknowledge that we're both nervous, I started to get kind of protective of you. I feel that like, I'm because I know who I know you. And so I think about all the things you've done in your life, and I'm like, I'm sort of in the background there, um, wanting to, wanting to remind you or to have those conversations where we're like, We've got this, which kind of feels like what this is hopefully going to be about for me, right? Because, you know, I struggle with the very similar stuff. Yeah.
Speaker1: It's like we're in tandem sometimes. Like, I'll talk to you about something that I'm struggling with and you're like, Well, that was my last week, so we don't need to talk about me.
Speaker2: Um, yeah.
Speaker1: So as we're talking about right before we hit record, it's just our intention with this question and this podcast even is just to be able to be as vulnerable and honest as possible with our own stories in the hopes that the question asker would just maybe not feel so alone in it and not feel like, Am I the only one that's going through this? Because we both of us have gone through this exact same thing. And I think that you're in a different stage of it. And I was really struggling with it for many, many years while I was going through career pivots. But in terms of your recently pivoted career. I remember you wanting to make a change with your career for, I would say. Ten years?
Speaker2: Yes. Yeah, probably ten more. Maybe. Maybe even more. But yeah.
Speaker1: Yeah. The first inklings were maybe even longer than that. And what eventually? Made you decide to jump from your original career that you'd had for, what, 30 years?
Speaker2: Probably 20. And the interesting thing is, you know, I went back and forth and back and forth between the two. The two jobs. Right. So, um, yeah, I started as a teacher in 93 and then was asked by a mentor to move into the other role that I had in the, in the system, which was school counseling. Um. It. I. I don't know if I've ever felt not imposter syndrome in either of those roles, but that, I think, has more to do with, um, the messages that I've been telling that I tell myself and continue to tell myself too. So when you ask the question like, what made me make that you said, what made me make the move, right? Like eventually do it.
Speaker1: Eventually move because you move from your original career. I'm trying to create some context to because I realize that, like, the listener actually doesn't know us. So you you were in the school system for 20 something years? Yeah.
Speaker2: 30. Almost 30. You're still am. Yes. Yes.
Speaker1: And you went you decided to sell your apartment and your husband over to the island. And that was a really hard decision to to make. I watched you go through that for many years. But yeah. What was the clincher like? What made you actually move?
Speaker2: Um, there were a few things, but this and this has been something that I has propelled me, whether it's good or bad, almost every time. And that's the pain of where I am is stronger than the pain of making the change. And you and I've talked about that, right? But the number of times and I write in my journal a lot, the number of times I woke up and I was like, I'm just I can't this is I'm not happy. Something's not feeling right. Something is I'm not doing the the job the way that I want to do the job. I always said that if I ever didn't like working with teenagers, like because my job was working with teenagers, that I would. That would be it. I could quit. But I never stopped liking working with the teenagers that like the kids that I got to work with. Right? That was always the best part of it. Um, so again, so what happened is there are a whole bunch of family stuff happened and, you know, aging parents and things like that. But really it was, it was excruciatingly painful. Um, lots of tears. Um, feeling, feeling it sort of seep into other parts of my life. So it was hard to be social. It was hard to, um, to not think about it when I wasn't at work, which is a real commitment to myself. It's like try to leave it at work and not and not think about it and really just feel incredibly defeated, really defeated. And it's a very it was a very it's still a very scary thing. I don't regret the move. I don't regret leaving. But I'm still you know, me, I'm still hanging on to a part of it, right?
Speaker1: Yeah. I mean, I think golden handcuffs could refer to a few things. Some some are like you're in a company for so long that every year you stay, they actually give you more stock options. And then it but it's all it's always financial. Yeah. Always. Um I think hits the nerve of financial fear of financial instability. Right? Yeah.
Speaker2: And that's that's a long, long, long ago message. You know, my mom grew up in absolute poverty and my dad not didn't fare all that much better. But that message all through was about money and about making sure your you're stable and secure, making sure you don't owe too much, making sure that you can do what you need to do in order to take care of yourself. And so exploring that and seeing whether it's possible to take care of myself and be financially responsible in another career, it just did not seem possible because it would be kind of foolish to give it up. And that wasn't really necessarily the message I was getting from from some people. But there's always someone that has that message. There's always someone that says, What are you thinking about? Look at all the good stuff that you have here. Right? And it makes it really hard to sort of sift through to see. Yes. But is it possible that I could also be successful? And be happy doing something else.
Speaker1: And for you, the I think if I remember correctly, like the financial stability had to do with not only the steady paycheck but also the pension. Yeah, yeah. And so yeah, yeah. So knowing that and, and leaving your job early, knowing that there's not just the financial stability of right now, but there's also the, the financial stability of later. Yeah that was a big thing. But yeah, we were sort of talking the other day too about the idea that financial stability. And the fear of. Not having enough is quite arbitrary. Yeah. Yeah. Because some people really don't have a lot. But most of us, especially in Canada or, you know, in big city Vancouver, where, you know, most of us actually aren't starving or we're not suffering through a war or. You know, having to be in hiding because of like religious persecution or things like that. Um, we have enough to get by, most of us. And it may not feel like we're thriving, but we're not literally dying either. And so when we step back to look at how much we have and how much we're willing to risk, these are all very subjective things.
Speaker2: Absolutely.
Speaker1: Can you speak to that? Because I know we're talking about that the other day and like how you were like, well, do I want to make a move? And. Yeah, well.
Speaker2: And you know, I've been talking for for many, many years about this. I actually don't think it has a lot to do with money. I actually think it has. Probably nothing to do with financial security. I mean, yeah, I spent my career working with people that absolutely do struggle with money. And I see it and I know the difference and I know what that actually looks like to be having to to make choices between putting food on the table and spending time with your, your, your family. Right. Um. So I think that's where the sadness for me comes from, is because I know that it's not about really the money. And that's that's where I am. I feel like I've been here a sometimes like many times over the years, but that's really where I am, is that that trust that I well, it's the, it's the self stuff, right? It's the. You got this piece right that other people see in me that I struggle with. And, uh, and it's so ironic that a lot of my career is spent working with people that are working through this themselves and supporting them through it. It's actually a real privilege because then I get to sort of go. Note to self. Sandra Yeah, check yourself here.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: But that, that is like, I mean, even Oprah says she's never had to go to therapy because she's interviewed all these people and that therapy. Yeah, yeah. Which really mean that the amount of self-reflection that happens in those in those relationships is so much.
Speaker2: But okay, like think about thinking about that time way back when you were leaving graphic design. Yeah. And that that was. To me, that was it felt like that was a monumental shift from that job to the bakery. Right. And all I mean, remember what that was that whole time was like. Like I talked about the fact that it was the pain of staying where I am was greater than the pain of trying to move forward. Right. What was it for you?
Speaker1: Same. Same. I have that tattooed on my body. There's that quote. Why do I don't I don't know if you remember, but there's that quote by Anais Nin. It's like the pain of staying closed as a bud was more painful than the fear of blossoming. And so it was exactly that. It was like this idea that. I didn't want to hate my everyday life anymore. I didn't want to wake up and feel like I wasn't my fullest self and that I wasn't enjoying life. And I think I still feel that because, I mean, this is a topic for maybe another day. But, you know, in a in cloudier years, in the recent past, I felt the same thing where I've woken up thinking, I don't I don't want to be where I am. But I don't know where I want to be yet. So you don't. I don't. I think I just didn't know even which direction to take myself because all I knew was that I didn't want what I what was my present moment. But I had nowhere to walk. So tell me a little bit about the career that you had and where you recently pivoted to.
Speaker2: Okay. Um, I was I started teaching in 1993, and I will say that even then when we were thinking about careers and things, uh, during my first practicum, I was basically told I should find another career. Um, by my, my advisor, Um, because they just. They could not see what I that I even would enjoy the job they couldn't see based on how I was showing up every day that I had, there was getting any pleasure from it. And they took me aside and said. Either shape up in the last two days of this practicum or find another career. What So yeah.
Speaker1: So surprising because you, in my opinion. Are slash were epic at what you did like you were. You had created a safe space for teenagers? Arguably, I think. The hardest period in life to reach. Someone is in their teenage years, at least for me, because I teenagers are like aliens to me. I have no idea how to talk to a teenager. Yeah, you created this, like, incredible safe space in your drama classes for teens to work out the things that they were really struggling with and these teens were struggling with.
And you. I remember. Feeling going to these high school plays that you would write in the summertime so that these drama students could feel really seen and work out their personal. Issues and and struggles through drama. Anyway, that's just an aside of how amazing you are. So the fact that someone told you like, hey, just the maybe you shouldn't be doing this.
Speaker3: Just a heads up. Shocking to me.
Speaker2: Yeah. And it was I will say, though, that he was right, that the adviser was right in that moment. And it was a lot of what I still struggle with today. Thank you for saying that. I know I forget that you've sort of seen me in that element and in that in that role that I eventually because I made it through my practicum, obviously, um, and the just the gift it was to be able to work with kids and, you know, it's teenage stuff. It didn't even have to be brutal, hard stuff. It was just I hate being 14, you know, or it's really hard to be 13 and and not, you know, have sometimes a voice or whatever. Right. Um, but what he saw in me that, that, uh, um, in that practicum was what has stopped me from making a lot of decisions and choices in my life. And it was that fear, the fear of screwing up, the fear of not being successful, the fear of of not doing it perfectly. That was a really big piece for me. And after I was told that, like, figure it out in these last two days or I'm going to ask for you to not be here for the longer practicum. It it shifted something in me and I was crying on the phone to my dad, and my dad said, I don't know what to tell you, Sandra, because teaching is hard. It's really hard and there's nothing I can tell you to make to to pretend that it's going to be easy. And I also shifted in me because I knew I knew it was hard, but I also knew that I wanted to do it. And so I went.
Speaker1:What was the hardest part about it?
Speaker2: Well, there's a whole bunch of hard, right? Like, there's a whole, whole bunch. But for me, it was I was doing a practicum on the east side of Vancouver. I came from, you know, from Victoria. And I had all these preconceived these, these preconceived notions about what it would look like or what it would be like. And everything was that I thought was it was going to be was wrong. And I was so wanting to be liked or to be for them to know me right away without having to explain who I was. And that's not how it rolls with people, especially with young people. It's like, I don't know you. Um, and I wasn't. I was really paralyzed at showing myself. And I had, you know, like, the whole insecurities that I had forever. And they were just really showing up in the front trying to teach something, trying to connect with them. And, and, um, and after he said that, I just went in and started acting. I started acting like I, I had confidence. I started acting like I could. I believed I could connect. And through the acting, the acting as if it happened. And, and in the end that that adviser was the reason that I got my first job in in another school. And where I stayed for most of my career was in that school. And yeah.
Speaker1: So why did you leave and move back to Victoria?
Speaker2: So well, a lot of it was to do with, you know, my dad's health and, and wanting to be there for, for to, to support my family. There's a lot of health problems for a couple people that I care about. And, um, and also, I, I just wanted, I just needed more, um, quiet because where I was living and what was happening was a little bit was, was too much. But also I really struggled within the system because I moved into the counseling piece and I really struggled with what the expectations of a school counselor are versus what I wanted to do with my time. And that's what the pivot has been now has been. I am creating more opportunity to do the work and have the conversations and have the connections that I want to have. Um. And it's not in the system.
Speaker3: It's not there.
Speaker1: Yeah, I remember you were talking about shifting careers for probably a decade. And I think I think it's a misnomer that these shifts happen really quickly and that people just jump. For me at least, my experience has always been that I think about something and it slowly bubbles for about a decade. Yeah, even this podcast I've been thinking about for about a decade. And then finally one day. You just run out of reasons Why not? Yeah. Or you get so sick of where you are that you you feel like you have less to lose by just going forward.
Speaker2: Or even, uh, more more things fall into place that answer the question about whether it's time, you know, like, like, like it's, oh, it was family or, um, the city's getting really loud. Where we're living is getting really. There's someone that lives above us now, has really heavy feet. Like, all of these things started like that, started to fall, and it's like, okay, well, maybe I can sort of revisit this, this plan. I had to do something different.
Speaker1: And just like the asker that. That career shift or pivot was sort of made for that decision was sort of made for her because she.
Speaker3: Was.
Speaker1: Impacted by a layoff. And so sometimes when I think when we're meant to do something, the stars just align and sometimes the stars align and look like they suck in the moment. But actually it's kind of a blessing. Like, for example, with my divorce. You know, in the moment I was. Not feeling like. A marriage failing was my greatest blessing. But actually it was the one. Probably most pivotal learning experience I had was being in a marriage that was very, very challenging.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker2: And I will say, too, just thinking about that, um, how many conversations we would have about the things that you were going to try as well in that, right? Like, like I can shift this or, you know, I understand this and so maybe I need to think about it this way, right? Like the number of conversations we had around. I'm going to, I'm going to I'm in it, right? I'm going to you know, I want to just try. Right. And until.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: Until there's nothing else to try. Yeah. We do the same things with anything important to us, like our careers where we're like, well, maybe I don't hate it so much. Or maybe if I just shifted my own perspective in this way, maybe it would work. Maybe, you know, and it's just. And it actually all of that trying works. It's almost like it works out the kinks of what we actually truly desire. In the end, even if we leave not knowing what we desire next.
It's all a part of the forming of an image, like the the blurry focus coming into focus. Each time we do that trying, it's like, oh, no, no, no. Actually, it's over here. Oh, okay. Wait, you know, and so we end up figuring it out through that process, so not none of it's wasted. Yeah. Um. So when you decided to go into private practice as a counselor, know that that was a really scary thing for you because of the financial piece which the asker touches on having had a steady paycheck for 30 years plus the pension, which is the financial security for later going into something like private practice where essentially you're an entrepreneur.
Speaker1: How was that shift for you and what was that like to overcome that fear? Because I think entrepreneurship is very, um, scary for someone who's never done it.
Speaker3: Oh, absolutely.
Speaker2: And and there's really, there's a huge learning curve for me because I don't I know nothing. I really I spent my whole career in in a with an employer and things were taken care of by that employer that are now essentially my responsibility. Right. Um, so I'm not 100% sure that I actually have handled it entirely because, you know, like I'm still hanging on to a few days in a school system, partly because I do like that connection and I like what I get to do, but also because, um, it is very scary. Um, I would say one of the things that really helped was to really realistically look at how much I need to survive at and, and that was a conversation I did not have just in my head. I, I spoke with, you know, well, my husband in particular. And we, we hash it out right? Like we make sure we're not I don't want to do anything that's going to put him or myself in a difficult position. If something also were to come up right like that, we needed to be able to figure out financially. So there's a lot of conversations about that. But also the driving force was there. There was a really weird, good feeling about it. Like as scary as it.
Speaker2: There was also this huge excitement and relief like excitement that I did not feel, um, like stuck, um, and excitement that this was something new. And also it really aligns with what I love to do, which is like work with people in that kind of space where you have time that is not interrupted by phones or another person coming knocking at the door saying, We got to go here or this person has to go back to class or whatever. Right? Like, it's like everything that I loved.
Speaker2: What I do in the system, uh, the school system, I'm able to sort of bring myself into it. And it's still scary. It's still like I'm. I'm, you know, there's a lot to learn. Um. But also it's like I know the difference when I walk out of a day that I've spent working for myself and doing this. I it just feels better. It feels better.
Speaker1: Do you feel more yourself? Do you feel more energized? Do you feel like, what is that feeling?
Speaker2: Um, that's funny that you would say, Do I feel more myself? Because that's always the struggle. Even with this podcast, we already talked about this. Like that's a constant awareness of mine is like, okay, am I showing up just as I am, or am I pretending that I know more than I do? And and when in my in my role now people are coming to work through things with the expectation that I have information or I have a background that could support them. And I do have that background. But every person is different, right? So so for me, it is there is a moment that I several moments that I have to take and go, You know, you you have enough information on, you have enough. And if you do not have the information, then you will find out what the information is because you're the ultimate thing is that you want to be of service here. Like that's that's, that's it. Right? And honestly, it really isn't about, um, the money. I know that sounds kind of off topic, really, but.
Speaker3: Really, the financial.
Speaker1: Thing is huge part, right?
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker2: But it is it sort of letting go of what I think, um, what I think it should look like for one thing and just, and I find that actually very easy when I'm in like in the private piece or in a session. I found that easy in the school system. When a kid came into my office, it was like nothing else. Nothing else was going on. It was just that. And now I get that same experience here. Like all the worries I have, all the the self doubt everything, if I'm doing what I genuinely connect with. Those things are so small. As soon as the session is over, they all come back. Yeah. Yeah, but. But in that moment and that's that's the that's the thing for me. Like if when I'm actually doing the work that I want to do, if that fear and those worries about showing up who I am, perfectionism, all that crap that that gets into my head. If it doesn't happen when I'm actually doing the work, then that's a good sign. That's something to move towards.
Speaker1: It's like all the outside stuff, the outside projection stuff. Dies away or gets muted. And I really do think that when you're in that place. You are in like a zone of connectedness with yourself and it everything on the outside. Uh, inferring what we should be, how we should feel, how we should be approaching this. All those self doubts which are all exterior going in, right? I think when you're in that zone, it's just you.
Speaker3: Doing you.
Speaker1: And that is what I, I for for myself. That's my biggest indicator of when I'm doing the absolute best thing for me.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: That I'm exercising myself in the perfect way, crafted exactly how I should be doing it. I always think of like a dog. When it doesn't get exercised, it just starts tearing up the couch. Mhm. And I always say that I'm like a dog that needs to be properly exercised or else I. I'm just like an unhappy person. I need to be doing things in my zone and I think everyone really does. Like, I think everyone has a zone where they feel so connected and like the world falls away when they're doing that thing. And the hardest thing is to actually find what that is.
Speaker3: Absolutely.
Speaker2: Or and giving yourself the time to find like it sounds like, um, I don't know.
Speaker3: Yeah, like just give.
Speaker2: It giving like that. There'll be time to do that because I think, like, if I'm in my job and it's very hard to carve out time to even start to consider what, what it might look like to find that thing that makes me feel, um, that feeling. And just as I'm saying that I realize and the hard part about leaving the job that I left is because I still did have those moments and it was the moments that I got to, you know, work with the kids. The doors closed and were working through something. So I was like, Yeah, I do get that. But the hard part was that everything else outside the door was getting bigger and bigger and more intrusive and more often. And so that that that had a huge impact.
Speaker1: In a moment, Sandra is going to give her advice to the wisdom seeker. But first, a word from our nonprofit partner. In each episode will feature a charity, a non-profit or a great cause. As a small way to give back to our community. And don't forget to tune in later where we're going to share our next month's question so that if you have had the same experience and would like to be a part of the episode, you can send us your story or your words of wisdom. Worth Hats is a hat company committed to doing something about mental health? Buy a hat. Give a counseling session. Worth's vision is for everyone to feel comfortable and safe talking about their mental health. Their goal is to build an inclusive culture where we can learn to identify our own internal landscape and be willing to share without stigma or fear. At worth hats, they believe that taking proactive steps to improve our mental health is necessary, and by doing so, we will be happier and healthier individuals, families and communities. Accessible and affordable counseling is their gateway to realizing their vision. They have sponsored over 6000 counseling sessions and counting. Head over to worth hats.com. We're hats.com to learn how you can get involved. And now with with private practice, it's almost like you found a way to lessen the things that you that don't energize you.
Speaker1: Increase the things that do because there's always going to be something in a job that doesn't energize us. Like always like I don't like, you know, talking to my bookkeeper, but I do because I it happen, but like crafting. And I think that comes with a maturity of like knowing yourself, but also with the with the maturity of of. Understanding that careers are are such infinite combinations of things that we can actually go that one piece doesn't work. How can I find a solution to not do that thing or not make it necessary? Does that make.
Speaker3: Sense? Yeah, totally does.
Speaker1: Yeah, Like.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker2: Well, the other piece that I was thinking about is, um. You know, because I've known you for a very long time and seen you move through and do a lot of a lot of different careers. But what's not seen is the incredible amount of work that went in to making those careers happen. Right. Like I, I think it's one thing like I see you and I see the things that you've done, but I also remember the work and I'm thinking in my in my practice now, um, the amount of stuff that I'm doing that the amount of time that's taken up that is not paid for me to be able to show up now. Right. And that and finding that I don't even know if it's a balance, Right? But it's like, um, it, it sort of.
Speaker3: Go.
Speaker2: It started winds down to what is driving my my heart like like am I Because if it's driving
Speaker1: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I remember getting some advice a long time ago that just said, you know, there are three buckets. Things that you are horrible at and you don't like to do things that you are good at but you don't like to do and things that you are excellent at and you love to do and. Number one, find someone else to do the stuff that you're not good at and you don't like to do. Number two, the stuff that you can do well but you hate doing in the beginning when it's needed, do it. But the goal is to eventually get someone else to do that. When you're financially like when the model works so that you can focus on the stuff that really does light you up. But it's obviously not always possible. But the goal is that you end up creating a model that you are really just doing the things that truly light you up or you know that you can do those things well in order to enable you to do the things that light you up. So that that was a really crucial thing. When I think about my careers, I always think.
Speaker1: How much time am I going to spend doing the thing that I love and how much time am I going to spend doing the thing I don't love? Because if it's like 5050 and I don't think it's worth it, sometimes I'll just think, Well, that's a great hobby then. Like I don't need to do that as a career. But this is one thing that kind of reminds me of what you were doing when you were exploring your. You're acting. And that was a huge potential pivot for you. And eventually you decided not to pursue it and you were actually doing really well getting casted in all these different roles. And I know drama and acting has had always been a real interest for you. And what I love about what you did was that you just started. You were like, I want to go take some like, you know, improv classes, improv classes turned into improv workshops with other people that were professionals turned into, Hey, Jackie, I'm going to go and get my headshot and do like, you know, a book or or a reel or whatever it was.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: Into I just got casted for this role in these movies where I just stand out in the cold for like six hours or something. And it was really going for a while. And I feel that is such a great example of. What exploring a pivot actually looks like and not pivoting because sometimes explore pivots.
Speaker3: Two.
Speaker1: Times before we actually pivot.
Speaker2: Well, I think explored the pivot without much financial gain. Yes. Yes. That was a big piece, too. I mean, I remember and you know, I was thinking that when you said something earlier, I have some friends that are actors and they're not like, you know, like, what is it, 3% or 1% of of, uh, actors in the Screen Actors Guild make over $10,000 a year. That was an old that was an old statistic, but it's not probably, um, I mean, and so the one of my friends in particular, they go through lots of spots where there's not a lot of roles coming in and then they'll get something big on a, on a show and that that sort of sustains them. But there's no question that they're doing that. And and there's no question they don't want to do anything else. Right. It has to. It's going to be about that. Right. And that willingness to be there. For me, the pivot, there was other parts of the like standing in freezing Cold River for an entire day and almost getting frostbite. That was a real clincher, I think. Like, I was like, oh, no, this is I like performance and I like that to be part of it. But I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker1: That's exactly I think that's exactly how we explore what careers we.
Speaker3: Want to do.
Speaker1: Yeah, Yeah. Because there are times where I, I will actually write out full business plans. With the intention of starting the business. And then after I write the business plan, I'm like, Wow, that's going to take a lot of work. And I'm like, No, not worth it. I don't want it bad enough.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: And then I just there are like ten businesses, 20 businesses that I've written business plans for that I've never started and I never want to start. But at least now I know because I've gone through the process of exploring it to its absolute point of surety.
Speaker3: Mm And I.
Speaker1: Think you did that too, because a long time you're like, Should I be an.
Speaker3: Actress?
Speaker1: Should I do this? And you went all the way to the point where you were standing in a cold river and getting frostbite and you're like, Yeah, I like this, but. A hobby is great too.
Speaker3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker1: Which is all a part of, I think, discovering what you want to do. The other part of. Oh, sorry.
Speaker2: I was just going to say the other part of it for me, which, um, the business piece of, of being an actor, that that was not what I wanted to do. I like the performance piece. I like the being a part of a creative community, the connections, the the camaraderie, everything that comes with it, right. Um, but the other part, which is really building your Speaker2: career and I've, I know how hard that is. I've watched people do that and it's just amazing to see it when it happens, like, like even for yourself, right? Like you, the work that you put into that, I just that wasn't I that was the difference between that and what I'm doing now is like, I did not have an interest in doing that for that work, then I do have the interest in what I'm doing now.
Speaker3: Yeah, yeah, that's the difference. Yeah.
Speaker1: And it's the same stuff, but for a different purpose.
Speaker3: Absolutely.
Speaker1: Also, like you mentioned that you weren't making a lot of money doing acting, but I would say that almost with every single. Career that I ventured into. Almost every single one. The money didn't come in the beginning.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: You know, I was doing farmers markets, as you remember, because you worked farmers markets out in New Westminster.
Speaker2: So much fun.
Speaker1: Like, we would drive out there so early and you would be hawking. Speaker1: Pastries and baked goods. Thank you so much. You're such a good friend. It's crazy. Um, but I was I was like doing all nighters, baking for Farmers Market for years. And the money part was just like, if I can break even doing this hobby, I'm golden. Because it was just fun to do. And even with Boku, I was like planning to not make money for like the first three years because I was like, But I felt like it's still worth doing. I still want to do it knowing that I could go bankrupt. I'm still, you know, and even with this podcast, I've I'm like fully understand that I'm not probably not going to be the next podcast sensation, but I'm like, I'm willing to invest this amount of money into this because it's something I'm really passionate about doing right now, and let's test it out. And maybe like in a year I'll think, Oh, that was fun. On to something else. Definitely So final. I think that's the other thing with choosing a next career or exploring the possibilities of new careers is that it's it's always. Now, this is easier said than done, but it's always best done with an element of lightness and exploration. Like with the attitude, the exact same feeling as when you go on vacation. And you're like, Ooh, that restaurant looks good. Let's try it out. Oh, my gosh, I've never had this food. Let's try it out. What's down that alley? I want to go and look. The sun down there looks really beautiful. Oh, I just found this amazing hidden garden. Cool. Like exploring your career. If you have the ability to is best done with that attitude also most of the time. I have never switched careers. While having no safety net. Yeah.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: I started baking when I was. I was still doing design.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: And you did acting while you were still working your day job?
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: And you are still working in the school system part time in order to make sure that you have a safety net for your private practice, just in case. Yeah.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: And so sometimes these pivots don't need to look like we're jumping off a cliff. Sometimes they just look like, you know, let's explore this while I do this other thing that I know is going to give me the freedom and the peace of mind to be able to explore. Because fear is the one thing that will stop exploration and creativity.
Speaker4: Yeah.
Speaker2: You made me think about it. Actually, a couple of students who have done that over the years because I've, you know, I've kept in touch with some students over the years and, um, and some of them did not have a safety net necessarily, but they were willing to adjust their lives to because it was so important to them to and most of that had to do around starting their own businesses. And so I remember like there is fear because they didn't have they didn't have the money, but they also were willing to see I have I could live with this amount to pay my bills. And I wanted for this many years to see if it would work. And and interestingly, for the two that I'm thinking about, it has. Right. And it and it is like it is, it does take time, but, um, they weren't able because of circumstances necessarily to, to make a change and have that that safety net. But it was so important to them that they gave themselves a certain amount of time and if it didn't work then they, you know.
Speaker1: Yeah, I think the certain amount of time part is, is a huge one that I've always done for myself. So even with this podcast, I'm like, I'm going to give myself a year and then check in. Does it still check all the boxes? Like, do I still feel really energized and passionate about this? Because that's the purpose, you know, that's the reason why I'm doing it. You know, is it sustainable from a financial perspective? Like, am I breaking even? That's, you know, another check point. Another one is, do I feel like there is some momentum of growth, whether it's I'm growing or the podcast is growing or I feel like listeners are giving me feedback that they're growing so that there's some momentum. Because I think when things are stagnant, they sort of die like so there's always like markers of, Look, I'm going to be able to give myself an out. If it's not working, and to give myself that time limit of a year or very measurable milestones, like until I reach this mark and if it's if I'm not feeling it there, I think too often people define failure in ways that. Tie their feet to something that they don't want. And it's like, what? What is failure like?
Speaker3: Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker1: We're all just testing this stuff out anyway. Mhm.
Speaker3: Mhm.
Speaker1: Um, okay, so. Feel like we've, like, explored some stuff here. If you were to answer this. Oscar's question directly, what do you think you would say? Advice on finding a new career, knowing that they are obviously worried about the financial risks. What would your advice be from your own experience?
Speaker3: Well, the whole.
Speaker2: If not for the financial risks piece is a hard one to overcome for me. Right. Like I if that sounds like that's a real, um, legitimate and real concern. Right? So, I mean, I like what you said about, um, is it possible to include it as a hobby somehow? Like to start as it being a hobby that it doesn't have to be a.
Speaker3: Your job, right?
Speaker2: Um, or to just learn more about whatever that career is like. For me, it was starting with the courses and starting with the classes and talking. I did a lot of talking to people who were in in the job. I started training for this job. Now while I was in another job taking courses. It was a lot, but I was still trying to, you know, do that again, though the financial risk piece is a really hard one because it says it's a legit fear. Right. Um. So I'm not one to say just do it. Yeah, like that's not helpful for me and I don't imagine it would be helpful for many. Um, I really can appreciate the feeling of also feeling stuck. Um, just sort of thinking about my own transition from to a different career. I really became very intentional about finding the things that mattered to me and the job that I was currently doing, because otherwise it was just it was not. I couldn't do it. So I really started to focus and I actually started to shift my job so that I was doing more of what I really liked in the job that I was in, even though it wasn't what I wanted to do forever. Um, so this is a really long winded answer, but I just wanted to acknowledge the, the stuck feeling and the financial risk piece is, is.
Speaker3: I get that.
Speaker1: Yeah, I think the financial risk piece. You know, like I said, like any fear will stop the the freedom of exploration. And so for me. The way that I deal with any fear.
Speaker3: Um.
Speaker1: Which has changed recently because of having a baby. But the way that my go to way of dealing with fears is I really am honest with myself about exactly what the fear is.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: And you drill down to. Hey, what is it really like? Because sometimes if you say, like, I'm worried about money. Sometimes worrying about money is not just about money. It's worrying about, well, what if I don't have money and I'm embarrassed and someone shames me for not being good enough or not being successful? And I've always been the successful person or the financial piece. Could be my parents grew up really poor and I never want to be sad the way that my dad was sad or something like that. And so when you really drill it down to like, where does this fear actually come from? And then after that, you know what you're dealing with. And then you know what your worst case scenario would be. So my financial fears are usually. If I were to like really drill it down because obviously I have financial fears as well, like everyone.
Speaker3: It's.
Speaker1: What if? I can't be impressive anymore. And the reason why impressive is important for me is because when I was a child. I'm not blaming my family at all,
Speaker1: What if? I can't be impressive anymore. And the reason why impressive is important for me is because when I was a child. I'm not blaming my family at all, but this was just my experience. There was just so little time because they were dealing with so much as immigrant parents. We grew up with ten people in our in our house. There was so little time for me to be acknowledged or noticed as a human being that I was only ever noticed when I was impressive when I did something outstanding.
Speaker1: And because Chinese families are all about financial security, having financial security. And being wealthy is outstanding too. And so I think my financial fears drill down to what if I can't be outstanding, meaning I will never be loved. I will never have the opportunity to be loved or seen. And obviously I don't think this in my mental head, but I think it in my heart, in my like body. And it's it's a struggle all the time to overcome that. But anyway, back to the point. It's like when you outline your fear. Sorry. No, I.
Speaker2: Was just going to say, like, I really like what you said there too, about the, um, what what is that financial fear? Because I mean, this the, the person that's written in has said if not for the financial risks and I got stuck on that. But then I don't even know what that actually means to them. Like, you know, because like we talked a couple of weeks ago about how gazillionaires still fear sometimes. So they don't have. Right? So it doesn't I guess it's like defining it for myself and and moving out of that fear place to, uh, truth to the logic around it. Right. And that's why for me, it was really sitting with someone else. I cannot do this in my own head. That's why I reach out to you or talk with my husband. Right? Like I need to look at it realistically and not keep it. Because once it gets in here and it stays and I start to go through all my all my fears start to get attached, right? And it's it used to be about finances, but actually it's not about finances anymore. It's really about X, Y, and Z. So, um, I guess, I guess for me, the piece about like financial fear is it really? And if it is okay that makes that, that helps to know that. But if it isn't for me, that's been a relief. It's been a relief to go. Actually, this is just something completely else that I got to work on.
Speaker1: Yeah. And like, if if we follow that fear all the way to the end, then we can actually challenge the truth of the essence of it, right? Like, is it true that if I was not impressive, no one would ever love me? And I know without a shadow of a doubt, I am sitting here talking to one person that will always love me. Like, yeah, and that is like my my baseline, right? And then once we start diffusing that fear, because once you shed light on anything, it, it diffuses its power. Once we diffuse that power of that fear, then you can actually start looking at the finances. In black and white.
Speaker2: Yeah, the black and white piece. Yeah.
Speaker1: Yeah. You can actually start going, Okay, what are my expenses and what are my what is my financial status? And is it true that I can't make this thing work that I really want? Uh, or is it worth it to make it work? That was the other question we were talking about. But without clearing that emotional space around finances and around the fear, I don't think it's even possible to look at your financial situation in black and white to begin with. And without looking at that, it's hard to then play in the world to discover what a new career looks like because actually discovering a new career, I think, requires play.
Speaker1: Has it? Have you did you feel that way with like, the acting?
Speaker2: Well, yes. And also. Like I said, I haven't. It was interesting to talk about this because I didn't move into private practice without exploring. I like to look at it more as exploring. I don't know. I'm not I I'm going to play.
Speaker3: I don't know what's wrong with play, but I don't.
Speaker1: Really play either. You know me, I'm so serious.
Speaker3: All the time talking about what is the play word but the the.
Speaker2: Exploring part and don't even think I knew that I was doing that. But I'm like, I'm going to take this class. Oh, I'm going to study this theory. Oh, I'm going to read this book. And and it was when I was doing that, I'm like, Actually, I like this. I like, I like. And talking to people who are doing the career, I'm like, That sounds really good. Yeah. And I've got the the education for it. So I'm like, well, I'm going to I'm going to apply and I'm going to apply for my accreditation. Right? So, yeah, but, but it, it wasn't like I'm just doing it. It was, it was is I'm gonna check out some stuff just to make sure because of this deep seated fear of mine.
Speaker3: Yeah.
Speaker1: And, and these things I mean we were just talking the other day about how you're like, I really want to study this, like, theory in therapy. Yeah, I just want that. And we talked about like, okay, well, what will it take for you to create this space in your life to make that happen? Because you're obviously still exploring? Well, no, wait, you're obviously still playing.
Speaker3: You know, I'm gonna go play. Yeah.
Speaker1: So that's another piece is like, what do we need to do to create the amount of space to where that space is potentially doing nothing?
Speaker1: Which is also very hard. I'm not very good at that, but I've had to force myself to do it when when trying to find a new career, especially after I sold Boku came out and I had years where I was just there was just. Nothing going on. And I was like, what do what do I do now, guys? Anyone got some ideas? Everyone's like, You can do anything you want. Just do it.
Speaker3: I'm like, Yeah, but wait.
Speaker2: Wait, Wasn't that the time where you were still doing the apartment? Lafayette?
Speaker1: Yes.
Speaker3: So there was stuff.
Speaker2: I remember because we had a lot of conversation about that. But I'm like, Wait, look at this apartment that you're figuring out. Like, that was amazing.
Speaker1: Yeah, I mean, that was definitely my exploration, but it was also therapy for me. Yeah.
Speaker3: Oh, yeah.
Speaker1: So burnt out.
Speaker1: Doing all the careers that I just needed. I think subconsciously my body was creating a space where I could heal and rest. And that's another piece to this is don't. I think, don't negate that our bodies know much more than our minds sometimes.
Speaker3: Yes.
Speaker1: And that our bodies, if you listen to your gut and like, oh, that looks interesting, or ooh, you know, those end up leading you to the most profound experiences. Not and finding a new career is usually not done with the. Let me make a list of all the potential careers that I could have and then check, check, check and carry the one and you know, like it's not usually like that.
Speaker2: Well, I did when I was doing career life connections with my Grade 12 a couple of years ago. I took that career aptitude test.
Speaker3: Yeah. Oh, and what did it say?
Speaker2: Um, well, park ranger and clown.
Speaker3: Oh, seeing as how you.
Speaker1: Don't like to play clown might be off the table.
Speaker2: But yes, Counselor was still really high up there, but it was not. First park ranger was first.
Speaker3: I wonder what if.
Speaker1: I took this test? I wonder what it would say for me.
Speaker2: That would be cool. You should try that, actually.
Speaker1: What do you think it would say? I mean, it gives you a pretty limited these career aptitude tests give you like a very limited amount of of choices mean. But if clown was in there then it must be relatively wide.
Speaker3: It was low, it.
Speaker2: Was lower than Park Ranger. I think it would still go entrepreneurial for you for sure. Yeah.
Speaker3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker2: I don't know what it would look like. It would. It would say something about entrepreneur business. Um, but it might give you a more specific area of.
Speaker3: Business, maybe. Yeah.
Speaker1: I just, like, I just like making things.
Speaker3: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And I don’t.
Speaker1: Do you have any last thoughts on the question from Wisdom Seeker?
Speaker2: Well, first of all, just thank you. I think this is a really cool structure that you have that that someone writes in with this. And I think it's a I'm sure that it's a question that many people have. I also the fact that the person has been laid off, I just also want to say that that's a that comes with its own real struggles, right? So yeah, yeah.
Speaker3: That's.
Speaker1: Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker1: Ask them, hey, where did these financial fears come from? I mean, not everyone wants to dig into that, but.
Speaker3: That.
Speaker1: Is my jam. I want to know where everyone's financial fears are coming from anyway.
Speaker3: Yes.
Speaker1: Cool. Well, thank you so much as always, for being there. And also just for supporting me, because I know part of this you probably would have said no unless it was for supporting me. If it weren't for supporting me. Sorry. So I just want to thank you for that. And you're always so wise and. Yeah, appreciate you.
Speaker1: Dear wisdom Seeker, I sincerely hope there was something said today that was helpful to you. I hope you too have Sandra's in your life that can support you through the exciting and sometimes scary process of exploration. Whether it be exploring your interests or your.
Speaker3: Fears.
Speaker1: Exploring how to create space for curiosity to grow, or exploring what risks feel worth taking to you. I don't think we really did fully acknowledge the feelings and insecurities that are brought up when we're let go from a job. That may also take a bit of time to parse through. And if you can be very generous with yourself and don't hesitate to give yourself the space and permission to process that change in your life. And I want to reiterate, it is no easy task to discover a perfect career, though keep in mind, and as I say this, I want to lessen the pressure of it. Is that even perfect? Careers North Stars, as you say, become careers that no longer feel perfect, that we may be searching for our perfect careers over and over again because we evolve. And so what we choose to include in our lives must as well. After I had ended some major careers in my life, I was in the exact same space as you. Wondering what I could should do next. I felt at a complete loss, and the one thing that kept me stuck was that I was not focused on what inspired me, but instead what others would expect me to do. It paralyzed me and I couldn't explore in the same way with the same abandon.
Speaker1: I had come to be known as someone with the amazing careers, and my identity was so fused with it that when I was trying to find what came next, the expectation of others loomed over me threatening my self-worth at every turn. The more I searched with external voices guiding me, the further I walked myself into a corner. Though it was only through this process of paralysis that I could finally begin to separate who I was from, what I did for a living. I came to understand that my joy and my satisfaction came from so many facets of life. My North Stars are so plentiful. That being said, what I create gives me immeasurable joy too. And the moment I finally lifted the pressure to find the perfect career, I created space to be curious, to enjoy what I already had in front of me. I created space to dream and wonder, to try something. To date it without feeling like I needed to marry it. So my hope and wish for you, dear wisdom seeker, is that you'll be able to enjoy this time of exploration amidst all the fears. Both are important. Both play a role, and you are expansive enough to hold both truths at once.
Speaker3: This is something.
Speaker1: That I remind myself daily as I navigate the exploration and fears around even creating this podcast. I've come to repeat to myself in the moments of greatest doubt that though I am afraid it matters so little because the steps I choose to take, despite the fear, is precisely how my life will be defined.
Speaker5: Thank you all so much for joining me for this first ever episode of You and I. And thank you, Sandra, for being our first ever guest. It was such a pleasure to explore your question, Wisdom Seeker. I really hope you got something helpful out of this. And if anything, please know that you're not alone. You see, we all struggle. We all mourn, yearn, question, laugh. We all cry. No matter our age, background or titles at our core, we're all not so different, you and I. And here's next month's question. I live in Victoria. Born in Namibia, 63 and never had children purely by circumstance and then later by choice. So often people feel children give them purpose. But what do I have to say? The childless one would love to hear other people's thoughts on this. If you have had the same personal experience and are interested in being a guest of that episode, or if you have a short word of wisdom for them, write to us on the contact page on you and Podcast.com or DM us on Instagram at UAD podcast. And of course, as always, please do submit your questions there too. If you enjoyed this episode, like and subscribe to our channel which helps others who might be interested find us as well and feel free to share this episode with a friend or family member who you think might find it helpful. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm Jackie Ellis and here are some words of wisdom.
Speaker6: Hey, wisdom seeker, I totally hear you. I'm currently in a similar position and it's hard. You can have the best of intentions, but opening up your mind to new things and navigating the unknown can be challenging. Believe in yourself that you do have transferable skills that can serve you well in other careers. Think about all the connections you have friends, family, former co-workers reach out to them and use that network. That process may take you on a path you never even thought of and lead you to a job you didn't even know existed. The financial pressures are real. No one can deny that. But think about what you're trying to achieve. Make a list of goals, apply to jobs that inspire you. You might strike out the first few times, but eventually you'll land on something that hopefully brings you joy. Good luck. And when you feel like giving up, just keep on going.
Speaker7: The thought of career change is scary, but I think it's easy to process when you come to the realization that this idea is a constant new thought, because sadly, your current career job or whatever the reason, just isn't doing it for you anymore. I think it may seem easy for me because I've done it a few times. But don't get me wrong, there was a level of fear every time. But it's the experiences I've learned at each decision to change that have given me the tools to define my path with less and less fear. But to be totally honest, there's something about fear that kind of pushes you through that door. And when you ultimately cross that threshold with less and less knowledge of what's ahead, less familiar tools to navigate with and less of a support group. Just like anything else in life, you instinctively draw upon the few tools you know are transferable to this new endeavor that you are confident with. I always knew whatever the challenge, my hands would never fail me. I always knew I was good with people and that I think I can problem solve on the fly pretty well too. Some ability so it's no surprise that my journey from career to career has always been linked to creativity and some sort of use of my hands.
Speaker7: I also think understanding and accepting what's real and what's just in my head can be an easy way to cut the noise, to be honest and humble about my abilities, but also knowing my level of patience and ability to learn should give me a better starting point of expectation and reality of timeline that it might take to get to some level of success. At the end of the day, if you're true to yourself about what your needs are for the career portion of your life, whether it be for happiness, monetary value or other life goals, you should stand a better chance of success in your search for that next thing and reaching a new level of being content within it. They used to say the average person goes through 70 career changes. I'm not sure if that's still correct, but for anyone that's willing to truly figure out a balance and work in life, I'm willing to bet it's pretty close. I always keep in mind that change is always good. It may seem traumatic or scary at first, but the reason for the upheaval is almost always justified, and the ultimate result always ends up in some improvement in life if you just put in the effort. So just go for it. Good luck. You can do it.
Speaker2: Just saying. Thank you. Thought this was a really neat opportunity and, and hopefully they'll get a chance sometime to also come and talk to you.
Speaker1: I would love that. I think it's such a cool I would love to talk to this person in the future and see. See the bigger details of what was going on for.
Speaker3: Them for sure and actually.
LETTER TO THE ASKER:
To Wisdom Seeker,
I hope there was something said today that was helpful. I hope you, too, have Sandras in your life that can support you through the exciting, and sometimes scary, process of exploration. Whether it be exploring your interests, or your fears, exploring how to create space for curiosity to grow or exploring what risks feel worth taking to you.
I don’t think we did fully acknowledge the feelings and insecurities that are brought up when we are let go from a job. That may also take a bit of time to parse through, and if you can, be generous and don’t hesitate to give yourself the space and permission to process that change in your life.
And I want to reiterate, it is no easy task to “discover a “perfect” career. Though keep in mind, and I say this to lessen the pressure of it, that even perfect careers, north stars as you say, become careers that no longer feel perfect…that we may be searching for our perfect careers over and over because we evolve and so what we choose to include in our lives must as well.
After I had ended some major careers in my life, I was in the same space, wondering what I could, should do next. I felt at a complete loss, and the one thing that kept me stuck was that I was not focused on what inspired me, but instead, what others would expect me to do. It paralyzed me and I couldn’t explore in the same way, with the same abandon. I had come to be known as someone with the “amazing careers” and my identity was so fused with it, that when I was trying to find what came next, the expectation of others loomed over me, threatening my self-worth at every turn. The more I searched with external voices guiding me, the further I walked myself into a corner. Though, It was only through this process of paralysis that I could finally begin to separate who I was from what I did for a living. I came to understand that my joy and satisfaction came from so many facets of life, my north stars are plentiful.
That being said, what I create gives me immeasurable joy, too. And the moment I finally lifted the pressure to “find the perfect career,” I created space to be curious, enjoy what I already had in front of me, to dream and wonder, to try something, to date it without feeling like I needed to marry it.
So my hope and wish for you, wisdom seeker, is that you will be able to enjoy this time of exploration, amidst all the fears…both are important, both play a role, and you are expansive enough to hold both truths at once. This is something that I remind myself daily, as I navigate the exploration and fears around creating even this podcast. I’ve come to repeat to myself in the moments of greatest doubt, that though I am afraid, it matters little, because the steps I choose to take despite the fear, is precisely how my life will be defined.
END:
Thank you all for joining me for this first ever episode of You & I and thank you sandra for being our first ever guest
It was such a pleasure to explore your question, wisdom seeker. I hope you got something helpful out of this…if anything, know that you’re not alone. You see, we all struggle, mourn, yearn, question, laugh and cry. No matter our age, background, or titles, at our core, we are all not so different, You & I.
TEASE NEXT MONTH’S Q:
And here is next month’s question.
I live in Victoria, born in Namibia. 63 and never had children purely by circumstance and then later by choice. So often people feel children give them purpose but what do I have to say? The childless one... would love to hear other people's thoughts on this.
OUTRO: [music]
If you have had the same personal experience and are interested in being a guest of that episode, OR if you have a short word of wisdom, write to us on the contact page on youandipodcast.com or DM us on instagram at @youandi (DOT) podcast. And of course, please submit your questions there too.
If you enjoyed this episode, like and subscribe to our channel, which helps others who might be interested, find us. And feel free to share this episode with a friend or family member who you think might find it helpful as well. Thank you for joining us today. I’m Jackie Kai Ellis, this is you and I.