Episode 7: How can I find passion?

This month’s question is one we got from an asker on Instagram. It’s short and to the point, but tells a story of struggle that most of us have had – searching for our passion. 

They write:

How can I find passion?

Because we keep all our askers anonymous, I’ve decided to call you daydreamer.

For those of us who have experienced the yearning and confusion that comes with seeking, we know all too well, that it feels…uncomfortable, even mournful. It feels like being stuck indoors on a beautiful day, or like wearing jeans two sizes too tight. It feels like we are holding two halves of ourselves that aren’t clicking together. I know it can feel agonizing not to have an outlet for our curiosity, feeling like we can’t, or don’t know how or where to express ourselves.

Jackie sits down with her guest Natasha Muslih who shares her journey from feeling lost, searching for passion and eventually finding her path by starting a travel company, the Voyagiste, combining her passion for creating stories and for storied places. We hope you get something helpful out of this…if anything, know that you’re not alone. You see, we all struggle, mourn, yearn, question, laugh and cry. No matter our age, background, or titles, at our core, we are all not so different, You & I.

And make sure to tune in until the end of the episode to hear the question for next month. And if you have had the same personal experience and are interested in being a guest of that episode, OR if you have a short word of wisdom, write to us on the contact page on our Website or DM us on Instagram. And of course, please submit your questions there too.

This podcast is produced by More Good Media.

Episode Resources:

Jackie Kai Ellis: Website / Instagram

Natasha Muslih (The Voyagiste): Website

Wirth Hats: Website

Resources on finding trusted professional help can be found here.

• Transcript

  Welcome to You and I. I'm Jackie Kai Ellis, and it's my genuine hope that through sharing our most vulnerable stories we know, in the moments where it matters so much, that we're actually not alone. It needs to be said, I'm not a professional, just someone with some personal experience to share. I do hope that This is helpful, but as always, take the advice that resonates and ignore what doesn't.

  And don't hesitate to seek out professional help through a trusted source. We have some resources on our website. This month's question is one we got from an asker on Instagram. It's short and to the point, but it tells a story of struggle that most of us have experienced. A search for our passion. They write, How can I find passion?

  Because we keep all our askers anonymous, I've decided to call you Daydreamer. For those of us who have experienced the yearning and confusion that comes with seeking, we know all too well that it feels uncomfortable, even mournful. It feels like being stuck indoors on a beautiful day, or it feels like we're holding two halves of ourselves that aren't clicking together.

  Daydreamer. I know it can be agonizing not to have an outlet for our curiosity, feeling like we can't or don't know how or where to express ourselves. When we posted this question on Instagram, it resonated so deeply with Natasha Mousselet, so much so that she sent me a DM, something she rarely does, and she told me her story in a few beautiful words.

  Her message began with, I was a stay at home mom for many years and was so deep in the trenches of motherhood that I sort of forgot to focus on myself. Meanwhile, my children were growing up quickly, needing me less. Friends all around me seemed to be enjoying successful careers, and it felt like everyone pursued one interesting passion or another.

  At one point, I literally wrote this question down on a piece of paper, stared at the blank page forever, and broke down in tears. I was so lost and couldn't find the path to a passionate way of life. But Natasha did find that path, eventually starting a travel company called The Voyagiste, combining her passion for creating stories and for storied places.

  Here's my conversation with Natasha. Hi, Natasha. Thank you so much for joining me. And I'm really excited because you are our first guest that reached out over Instagram, which really is the intention behind this whole podcast is that we have listeners be our guests, because I want people to know that it's not only experts and famous people or people that have written books that have so much wisdom.

  Um, Thanks so much for coming on. Well, thanks so much for having me. And the funny thing is I never do this sort of thing. It's just that I had such a reaction to your post on Instagram where you were asking people, you know, how do they live their life of passion? And it just spoke to me because I was in a position not that long ago where I would have gained so much from a conversation about this.

  And it was actually the question from the asker. It was very simple, also sent to us over Instagram. It was, how can I find passion? And when I posted that on Instagram, you sent me this long DM and I want you to describe why this question resonated with you so much. Well, it wasn't that long ago that I myself struggled with this and I thought, you know, I just looked around me and everyone seemed to be living passionate lives, pursuing the things they're interested in, or just even knowing what their passion was.

  And I just remember thinking, well, I didn't feel like I had a passion. I had, I chose to give up a career to stay at home with my children. And at some point along the line, I feel like I lost who I was. And so, you know, was asking the same question as your listener, you know, and I don't know what their story is or where they're coming from, but I'm sure that many, many people, um, are asking that same question.

  And when I saw it, I thought, well. You know, I did eventually find it. And so that's why I reached out to you. So can you describe a little bit of what it felt like? The moment that you realized that you didn't feel passion and yet you wanted to, what did that moment feel like for you? I mean, I know exactly the moment that that happened because I was doing a very boring, random chore.

  I was returning something at the bay in downtown Toronto and my husband works nearby and I called him and I asked him, Hey, you want to meet me for coffee? Cause I'm here. So he did. We sat down and for. No reason, like there was just no, I don't know what happened to me, but I was just overcome by emotion and I realized something, something was missing and I didn't know what it was.

  Then I came home and I thought about it some more and I figured out that the, the reason was I, I lost my passion here. It was, you know, like my whole life revolved around my family and doing kind of mundane things. And I lost who I was and it was just an emotional moment. And it, it just felt like just sadness, I guess.

  Why in that moment, was there something that you were looking at or was there something leading up to that day or was it just this wave of. It was just a wave. And was it a feeling of sadness and remorse or just sadness and confusion? I would say more confusion. Um. Sadness, confusion. I mean, it was something that it had never happened to be to me before.

  I can really like if I close my eyes, I can just put myself on that stool in that coffee shop, the basement of a department store where Nothing set me off. It was just something just washed over me. I mean, I wouldn't, I didn't know it then. I thought I was just at the start of something very, very bad, but when I look back, it was just the start of something new.

  And when you say that you ha, it started you thinking about asking yourself some of the questions that maybe you hadn't been asking yourself prior. What were some of these questions? I mean, the first questions were, you know, why is it that everyone seems to be living this life of passion and why can't I?

  What is it that I'm doing wrong? You know, those, I guess, would have been the first questions. And then how do I, how do I change things? Like, what is it that I need to do to change the things that I need to change? I started asking, you know, like, how can I be inspired to this life of passion that I want to live?

  Those were all the questions that I needed to ask that I hadn't asked before, because I, Just didn't think I needed to I mean the inertia that I talked about that part of me It didn't matter to me at the time and then all of a sudden it did so it really was this Reawakening where you were like, oh, wait a second.

  Something doesn't feel right Let me go and research this and can you tell me the approach that you took you shared a little bit about it with me before, but I find this approach to be so pragmatic, extremely effective. Yes, because like I said, I have some really great friends. Someone who's, you know, more of an acquaintance of mine, we were just having coffee and she said, what you need to do is meet someone new every week.

  It could be, you know, like a friend that you would already meet, but then, you know, eventually like branch out and start just inviting someone out for coffee once a week and just talk to people. And when you talk to people slowly, you'll find the answers. You don't even have to ask the questions. Just by meeting people, connecting with them, you'll find the inspiration.

  You'll find whatever it is that you need to find, and you will get there. I mean, I thought there was something to this advice. I thought, well, I mean, I have time. I could meet someone for coffee once a week. It's it, you know, it's not that big a deal. So why don't I try, even though I will admit I went into it, not thinking that it's going to lead me to anything really.

  But. It actually did. You know, the more you talk to people, the more questions you might have. I found inspiration by talking to people and just it just opened up a lot of possibilities. It's incredible what you can do and what you find out when you go into a conversation with no. I have two questions on my mind.

  One is, who do you think was the most inspiring person that you talked to during this time? And why was it so inspiring? Like what did they say? And now I've forgotten my second question, but it will come to me after you talk about your first one. I'm pretty sure. Like, you know, these conversations, these meetings that I have with people, I mean, and I still do that.

  Like every week or anything. So it's still an ongoing thing that I do right now. The one person I have in mind is she's a woman in Morocco who is just from a village. She, her life is. So different from mine in that she didn't she's not she didn't really go to school. She stayed at home to take care of her Parents and siblings and you know, she's not married no children But she is a lit just a little bit younger than me and she at some point realized This is not what I want to do, I want to actually go out and do something with my life, or, or follow up, you know, pursue a passion and her passion was fashion, or is fashion or creating clothes.

  And so her brothers helped her out, you know, they gave her some money, she went to school to learn how to sew or create patterns for clothing. And she started making clothes. Slowly selling them and then she's opened a shop in a small village in Morocco and I just find her story so inspiring because it just goes to show that You don't have to come from means or you know people all over the world, you know with all kinds of backgrounds Inspire you somehow and be living these lives of passion.

  Yeah, absolutely. I find that to be so the case, like the more people I talk to, the more my mind can even open up to the possibility of something out there and that we can't even begin to fathom. The combinations of these things too. And so how on earth are we even supposed to know where we want to go if we, we've never even seen the possibility of what's out there.

  And I think by talking to people and hearing their stories, it's such a beautiful way to, um, to expand our like horizon to the point where even when we're brainstorming, we can brainstorm with so many more colors in our palette. I remember you were telling me a story about how you had met someone at a conference.

  Yes. That kicked off what you do today. Yes. This is pretty random actually. So because you know, I come from, my background is in journalism and now I run a travel company and they're not. At all the same thing. And yet they have a lot in common because I feel like as someone who plans trips for people, I had this privilege of telling their story through this trip, whereas in journalism, you're telling a story that already happened.

  I get to plan a story that is about to happen. And so I had no designs on starting a travel company. There was a large conference here in Toronto, and it was a colleague of my husband was In town for this conference, and I was, you know, looking for my weekly coffee date and I thought, well, I'm just gonna ask him out for a coffee.

  So we met at his hotel and we had coffee and he was telling me all about this fabulous, you know, luxury home that he's built in the southwest of France and He showed me photos of it and I, I was, I was completely, you know, in love with this place. It was, it's incredible. And I thought, you know, what, what are your plans with this?

  And he said that he had said that he wanted to use it as a place to hold retreats. And I thought, well, you know, I know people I've been talking to all these people over the course of all this time, and I'm sure I can put together some kind of trip or retreat where, you know, people will gather and have maybe an inspiring or life changing trip.

  And so he thought it was a great idea. I went off. I put something together not having any experience doing this. I collaborated with a friend of mine who's in the fitness industry, and together we put this trip. It just led to what I do now, which is organizing group trips for people. And when you were first doing this, what did that feel like?

  Because sometimes when I do something that I know is so aligned with, Me, I get these almost like pangs of, I don't even know how to describe them. They're almost like bursts of like excitement and joy inside my gut. As I'm doing it, and then I also get very focused, almost like laser focused into the process of it where I feel like the world falls away and all I know is what's in front of me.

  And that's when I know that I'm doing something very in line with who I am and my passion. What did it feel like for you the first time you did that retreat? Yeah. You're describing exactly. What happened to me and how I am now every time I plan a trip. I'm just completely, you know, focused, excited. I mean, it doesn't feel like work at all, um, because it is a passion and a joy to, to be doing this.

  How many weeks would you say that you went on these weekly meetings with people before this idea came to you? Was it like months or years? I would say it was within the year. I have a terrible sense of time, especially since the pandemic. But if I, if I recall it, we're not talking years, it could have been maybe a few months.

  Okay, so it was actually a relatively quick process for you, although in the moment, it probably didn't feel quick. In the moment, it didn't feel quick. You know, once things kind of gelled together, then it just all happened really quickly. I feel like it's a lot like, um, some people's or many people's experience, maybe, or at least my own personal experience with therapy, is that sometimes you feel like you're not getting anywhere, and then all of a sudden, it just...

  You know, gels. Yeah. Yeah, I have that same experience with, with therapy as well. And also with learning anything new, sometimes you feel like you're, you're getting nowhere. The question always pops up in my head, why am I even doing this? Like is this working? And then after that point, if you just choose to put one foot in front of the other, And have some element of trust that something is happening that you can't see, and all of a sudden one day, poof, you realize that all along it was just winter, and then the first day of spring comes, and so you start to see all these buds pop out of the ground, where you thought, Oh, my gosh, did I plant bulbs there?

  I have no idea. Where are these things? Did the squirrels eat them all? I'm speaking from personal experience because this is what happened to me last winter, but then all of a sudden you see the crocuses come up and you're like. Oh, yeah, I don't even know why I doubted it was winter. I mean, it is a lot like that.

  However, when you're living your life and going through all of this, you do have to make this choice to be brave. I mean, in my case, I think the thing that held me back so much in the past was being afraid of failure. And so, you know, I just didn't want to start anything because What if I fail or why bother starting because I'm, it's not going to be perfect or whatever it is.

  So that is a big part of it too, at least for me. That's such a huge point because I think for me it also is that when I think back on the time when I felt the least inspired, the least passionate and actually really struggled with. Finding my passion for years, and this is at a point when I think people expected me to be at my height of passion.

  It was after I had just bought my Paris apartment, I had just sold the bakery, I had done a whole bunch of things in my life, travel food writer, wrote a book. And I was starting to feel like my passion was dwindling. And so I poured all of my joy and passion into creating the apartment as a way to almost give that passion momentum because I was so afraid that it would go away.

  In a sense, I was becoming known as this passionate person and my ego was attached to it and all of a sudden I was like, well, I can't stop being passionate. Sheesh, everyone knows me as this passionate person. Who am I going to be without it? Like, what is my value to the world if I don't have passion? And so that's where the fear comes in the fear not only takes away passion when you have it, but the fear of failure also keeps us from the curiosity that's necessary to feed our passion, because I think it is completely a process.

  I think you're right. It's not just like If one day we, we have it and you found it, your process was, I'm going to meet someone every single week without any agenda. And other people will have their process of feeding curiosity, but the fear part is very real. The fear part is real. And I think, I mean, maybe meeting someone for coffee once a week might not work for some people.

  I think that the thing to take from that is it's just asking the questions, being brave. Being a little selfish too, you know, you have you have to take this for yourself And I think also, you know people also shouldn't be so hard on themselves about you know, living a passionately You can't be passionate 24 hours seven days a week You do have to be gentle and sometimes you just need rest like even for me You know planning trips going on trips with people it feeds me and yet at the same time I do get tired and I do need my rest.

  And I think this idea is propelled a lot by social media and it gives us so much pressure to be passionate all the time, living our lives, you know, living in alignment with our Our truest selves. I mean, that's so much pressure. 100 percent of people are not doing this. 100 percent of the time. No, no, there's laundry that has to be done.

  You know, food that needs to be prepared or, you know, you need to sit down and do the things that You know, there's accounting, you know, boring, boring things that need to be done every, but you can't escape it. I mean, all these fabulous things that you see on, um, on social media, there's more to it. I mean, I think most people are aware of that now, but sometimes it's hard to remember that when you're comparing, you know, your laundry situation to someone's fabulous trip to Italy or whatever.

  Yeah, and I remember you were talking about the comparison game. I said that the comparison is a thief of joy. Did you find that when you were trying to discover where your passion was, did you find that that was a struggle for you? Of course, because I compared myself with what other people were doing.

  And how did you stop comparing? And also, when did you realize that the comparing was the culprit? I think, I think on some level, I always knew that comparison was always the culprit. So I would try to stop myself from comparing but really the thing that had me stop was actually putting myself out there and doing something about it.

  Oh yeah, that's actually a really interesting point because it's really easy to have the time to compare and get upset about it. If you're not actually using that energy to actually create something yourself, because actually that energy is there to propel us and if it's not being used, it's like a fire engine that keeps on burning and yet it has nowhere to go and so it squeezes out and into things like.

  Comparison and resentment or jealousy or envy and we talked about this before too, which is, I do believe that moments where I feel a pang of jealousy or envy, that is an amazing signpost to the direction I should be heading. There's something in there that I really want for myself. Oh, absolutely. I mean, and you did make that point when when we talked that, you know, it just helps you ask the right questions.

  And I think as long as you're aware of that, I mean, comparison, jealousy, all these feelings, they're part of the human experience. I mean, we shouldn't feel bad about them, but we could use those feelings to better ourselves or do good. Like I said, you know, we're all a work in progress. Yeah, you're right.

  It's like, does it move the needle for us a little bit in the direction that we want to go? But whenever I get a little bit of like, Ooh, I wish I had that. It's like, Oh, okay, cool. Now I know what I want. I want that or some version of it. You know, do you feel like you have moments now where you lack vision for your passion?

  Um, I would say that I don't know if I lack vision for my passion, but sometimes I just don't know how to funnel it. Like, Whatever the opposite of inertia is, momentum. You know, now I guess I'm in a phase of momentum where I have all this momentum, I'm not focused enough. So it's another problem, I guess, or another set of questions I can ask, try to figure out.

  I also appreciate that you say that you're in a phase of momentum, because I do believe that we are cyclical beings. Yes. And we all have seasons. And so if you are in a phase of inertia, you will be also in a phase of momentum. Nothing lasts forever. And I remember being in a phase of inertia, being so worried that that was going to last forever.

  And I'm only just coming out of a phase of inertia, like after probably four years of inertia, I would say, it's just starting to trickle in now. And, oh my gosh, it was only when I let go of caring about the fact that I was in a state of inertia that it started to move again, which is kind of like, Ironic, and also the way that life sort of works is the minute you let go, your hand is sort of open to receiving the flow of whatever comes next, right?

  In a moment, Natasha and I talk about how we define passion and what we daydream to create in the future. But don't forget to tune in later, where we're going to share next month's question, so that if the question resonates, you can give your words of wisdom to the asker. First, a word from our non profit partner.

  Not sure if you know, but in each episode, we feature a non profit chosen by our last guest. This time it's Ben Miller of Worth Hats. We do this as a small thanks to our guests and to our community. Worth Hats is a hat company committed to doing something about mental health. Buy a hat, give a counselling session.

  Worth's vision is for everyone to feel comfortable and safe talking about their mental health. Their goal is to build an inclusive culture where we can learn to identify our own internal landscape and be willing to share without stigma or fear. At Worth Hats, they believe that taking proactive steps to improving our mental health is necessary.

  And by doing so, we will be healthier, happier individuals, families, and communities. Accessible, affordable counseling is a gateway to realizing their vision. Head to worthhats. com, w i r t h hats. com to learn how you can get involved. Now, back to our conversation with Natasha. How would you define passion?

  Oh my gosh. Sorry for asking these questions. I don't think that's what it is. We're talking about passion this whole time, and Oh, I Can I ask you that quick? I mean, one should never ask, answer a question with a question But can I, yeah, because I don't know if I have If I can verbalize that. I You know, I haven't even considered the answer for myself, so I'm really asking you a difficult question.

  I feel like, okay, for me, it's maybe more a feeling, I guess. I think maybe passion is not necessarily a destination as we... Believe it is, but passion is a constant nurturing of self through giving space through giving space for curiosity for indulging in curiosity. But I also think passion is the result of a skill towards being curious and learning.

  Yes, I would agree that passion is something like an intersection of curiosity and skill. Yeah, almost like a state of mind or a way of living as opposed to... Um, something that is like given to us from the heavens and some like, you know, amputated hand just comes down through the clouds and gives us a passion.

  It's more like, like, for example, I love it when I'm at a dinner conversation with someone and we say, Oh, um, my Michelangelo, was he ever married or something like that? I don't know. And someone says, Oh, I don't know. And there's always one person that goes, I'm gonna look that up. Yeah, that person is living the lifestyle or the mentality of passion because it's just this constant.

  Hey, I kind of want to know and it doesn't mean that they're all of a sudden life's passion will be the expert on Michelangelo's love life, but maybe that's where it starts. That's definitely where I feel like I'm at a lot of dinners where. You know, people, it's so easy now. It was like, well, we can just Google that.

  And so, you know, and then we'll just let whoever picked up their phone first to Google it. But the passionate one is the person who then goes home and then goes down this whole Michelangelo thing that leads them to a web of stuff. But you were saying earlier that it's not something that, you know, the heavens drops down on you or anything, but maybe passion it's in our nature, but we do have to nurture it.

  So it's. It's like the nature being given to us, but something that we actually do have to feed. Yeah, absolutely. And I do think that where the hand of fate has been involved in passion in my life is that it's made me a very lucky person. That I've had the time, the resources, the ability to be even questioning, Oh, what's my passion?

  Because I mean, we discussed this before when we were at coffee, that we're not in a country that is at war. We're not afraid of our basic security or survival at this point, but also coming from immigrant families. My parents never wondered what their passion was. It's because they worked so hard to give me a life where my basic necessities were cared for, and I have more than enough that I can concern myself with this topic of passion.

  Oh, yeah, I mean, we had to address the fact that we do come from places of, like, extreme, actually, in relation to the rest of the world, extreme privilege. And, I mean, It sounds like we're both grateful to our immigrant parents for having done what they could do to give us these lives in this new country that we now do actually have.

  You know, I'm grateful to my parents for those things too. And yeah, were they sitting around talking about fashion in their lives? I don't think so. So this is really a privileged place to be. But I mean, having said that, if I'm to think of someone who's inspirational, it would be this woman in Morocco who, you know, even without an education and without the same sort of things that I have was able to lead this passionate life.

  I also really like the idea of passion being related to daydreaming and dreaming. It's so nice that you brought up daydreaming because that's not something I've thought of very much but we all do it and maybe daydreams Might just be like little seeds of passion that could be where we can go looking.

  Oh, yeah, totally. You're so right. I mean, so many of my projects started as tiny little seeds of daydreams. Oh, one day if I ever have a bakery, who knows, maybe I'll have marble tables with those beautiful cast iron legs. Like I remember daydreaming these things. And it's funny because when the bakery actually came to pass, it was so easy for me to design the thing because I had designed it in a thousand daydreams.

  And it was like, I already knew exactly what it was supposed to look like, feel like, what my intention for it was. And I do think you're right, like, daydreams are just seeds that we're planting for things that we kind of want. And not to say that they don't evolve or change, but it's through the daydreaming that hmm.

  I mean, there's no commitment with daydreaming. We're just, we're just imagining. It costs us nothing to do. It's so beautifully put and, and now I'm realizing maybe I don't daydream as much as I used to and I want to. Just talking about it it makes me wonder. It's a kind of meditation. I mean, you're, you're putting yourself in a place.

  It's kind of a beautiful, I want to be there right now. One great daydream that one of my dearest friends, he, he gave this to me. He said, let's daydream on a Tuesday, a year from now, run through your day with me from the time you wake up in the morning to the time that you sleep, describe what you see.

  Where are you waking up? Is it sunny? Is it rainy? Who's with you? And I remember daydreaming, and this was years ago, this is like probably seven years ago, I remember daydreaming that I was waking up in a home in Vancouver and there was a child with me. And even as I was, you know, hopping around the world, globetrotting, and not even with a plan to have a child, I think that Tuesday morning never left me.

  And even as I was looking for the house Um, because I knew I was pregnant, I was looking for the house that felt most like this daydream. This let's daydream together is such a beautiful way to connect with someone. I have never heard of, I mean, maybe this is something people do, but I've never heard of it.

  And now on top of wanting to go out and daydream now today, I would love to. You know, this is something that one could do with one's friends, partners, children, whatever. It's so beautiful. Yeah. He's just such a, a wonderful, wise friend that I have that really knows how to live with that level of curiosity and passion in his life.

  you say?

  To this asker who wrote in how can I find passion if you could speak directly to them? What would you say and what kind of advice would you give? I mean, I would say a lot of the things that we've already said, which is stay curious be curious Meet with people and talk to them, you know, connect with people with no agenda because you can't think you know where you're going if you're looking for it.

  So just go with an open mind. You could be talking about nonsense or, you know, serious things, but just ask questions. Just, you know, go with it. Be brave, push yourself, you know, it's so rewarding to put yourself out there and take maybe risks that you, you know, you might have been fearful of taking and daydream.

  And as a last question, unless I think of more, because sometimes I do that, if I were to say on a Tuesday, a year from now, what do you imagine yourself doing first thing that pops in your head, what do you, what do you see? Okay, so this is totally, it's just funny, you're like, Tuesday a year from now, the first thing that popped into my head, I'm on the back of a jeep, like, rushing through the Wadi Rum in, in Jordan.

  I mean Oh my gosh! This is amazing! It's so specific! almost fall 2024

  yet. But maybe a Tuesday a year from now, I could be doing this with a group of people who knows. Oh, if you do. Because that's a very strong vision in my head. That is so beautiful. I'm actually getting chills. Like that is such a beautiful vision for a Tuesday from now. I mean, I, what is my Tuesday? I honestly, I don't know.

  Exactly. What is your Tuesday a year from now? Oh, Tuesday a year from now. First thing that pops up in your head. Honestly, a Tuesday a year from now, I'm doing something very similar to what I'm doing today. I don't think it will be a huge change. I'm loving the The cadence that my life has right now, it's slow, it's intentional, I have time to spend with my baby who will not be as much of a baby anymore in a year, I'm writing, I'm connecting a podcast like a Tuesday, a year from now, the only thing that I would love for my life to look like if I were to imagine that it doesn't look like now would be it.

  More intentional gratitude, like I imagine myself waking up in the morning, immediately feeling gratitude as opposed to feeling overwhelmed, which sometimes I'm waking up and I'm feeling overwhelmed. And it just means that I'm not being intentional about setting my boundaries for how I want to be spending my energy.

  I think. And I actually do think gratitude is also one of the ingredients in living a passionate life. It's important, you know, either you wake up or at some point during the day to stop and think and just. Be grateful for whatever it is you have, even if you're feeling, if you're not feeling particularly happy and especially maybe when you're not feeling happy or are in a phase of inertia is to stop and think of the things that you're grateful for.

  And that could help get you your momentum back. What I see, I'm asking you more questions. This is what happens. What are you grateful for? Right now and what advice would you give to someone who finds it hard to come up with something that they're truly grateful for because we've also been in that position.

  I know I have where I'm just like, okay, well, I'm grateful. I have legs. I'm great. You know, like, and you're like, I don't really feel this right now. Like, I'm not feeling that grateful. Um, I'm asking this because I do think gratitude is such a huge part of finding passion. So, yes, what are you grateful for and what would you, what advice would you give to someone who is finding it hard to have gratitude?

  I mean, I'm grateful, I'm grateful for my parents for having made sacrifices to come to Canada. Um, because they thought that this was a good place to be. I'm grateful for my Children and husband, the life that we have. Um, I'm grateful to my friends. I mean, I'm grateful for my health. There, there are many, many, many things that I am grateful for.

  I'm grateful for, you know, the sun today. Even though it's quite hot, there are things I'm not grateful for. You know, the chores or the things that I have to do. But those things are just a part of this package. So, just so many things. And what would you say to the person that's like, okay, I'm grateful for my legs.

  Like, what would you say to them? How do they find it? I would say, you know, that's great. You're grateful for your legs. I mean that they keep you, you know, standing, walking. Maybe, you know, like those legs will help you take that. This is so trite, but you know, it'll help you take that one step at a time that you need to get you going.

  And then you'll have that momentum to go and do other things. So if that's all you're grateful for today, then that's fine. I think if. You're just grateful for like one tiny little thing or whatever that's a start. I think you just need to have that start Yeah, that's so true. We're too hard on ourselves You know, maybe the person who's only grateful for their legs just thinks well that sucks Like I'm I've only got that to be grateful for but I think that that's one way to look at it The other way to look at it is you know, it's one thing.

  Yeah, I mean, it's not like toxic positivity or anything Just look at it as some kind of Yeah, it really is this, um, battling the perfectionist, right? Start where you are, wherever that is, you are meant to be there and it is okay. Again, it's comparison, right? Like, Oh, but I'm not as grateful as that person.

  Exactly. So what are you, what are you grateful for? I right now, intensely, I'm very grateful for this conversation. And I'm grateful for this podcast. It's something that I dreamt of doing for so many years and just did not have the guts to do it. Right. I just thought to myself, Oh gosh, like who wants to hear another podcast from some other influencer?

  You know, and I just wasn't giving myself the credit maybe, but I also just didn't give myself the leeway to do something just because I felt like it. And who cares what people think? And who cares if no one listens? I, at this point, don't care, but I think I cared for so long that it stopped me from doing something that I'm so passionate about.

  I love conversations like this. I love the idea that we can diffuse shame through just talking about something. And being like, yeah, I go through that too. I have fear because we all do. And the other message of that is exactly what you're saying is, let's not be hard on ourselves because we're all actually in the exact same boat.

  Let's just help each other. So I'm very grateful that. We are having this conversation now because it is the culmination of me overcoming a fear of mine. And just the, the fact that I can do this is such a gift to me. Anyhoo, maybe that's a great way to end it. I won't ask you any more questions. So thank you so much for, for talking.

  Oh, thank you. It was so nice to talk to you too. Dear Daydreamer, there are two distinct times in my life where passion seemed to evade me. The first time, I didn't even know I was looking for passion. It just felt like something was amiss. I had accomplished everything I was told I was supposed to accomplish in order to have a fulfilling life.

  A steady job, a car, a home, a husband. And yet, I still felt completely empty. And by the time I knew I felt empty, I maybe even felt emptier because I no longer had the distraction of chasing the things I thought would fill it. I remember waking up each morning in a fog, so sad and so lost. If I'd done everything that I could possibly do to make me feel happy and complete, and I don't, then what's left for me?

  Am I hopeless? I asked myself questions like this late into the night. Circling myself until the cold blue light of morning peeked through the blinds. Now, some of you may remember these stories from my book, but I'll tell you an abbreviated version for those of you that may not have already heard this.

  This was the first time in my life that I paused to question what I wanted for me. It was the first time it dawned on me that what I wanted might be different than what I was supposed to want. Growing up in an immigrant family, and in a generation that I did, it was frowned upon and considered selfish to think of your own desires and needs before that of others.

  I do believe so much of this thinking stems from the necessity for collectivism in times of survival. And the generations before me were surviving wars and famine, surviving the many kinds of poverty that often come with immigration. But because my parents worked so hard to secure my survival, my generation was liberated to strive for happiness instead.

  Only we had been taught just one path to it. And we had been taught to fear falling off that path, and the shame of doing so. Though because I was walking a path that was so obviously not mine, and I believed there only to be one, I fell into a deep depression and struggled to make sense of how I was supposed to live at all.

  And then came the chocolate chip cookie. I've told this story so many times, but I want to tell it again because it's exactly what Natasha and I discussed. It was a seed. As I laid there, each morning, in a fog, in an effort to will myself to live another day, I would imagine eating a chocolate chip cookie.

  It was a tiny thing that gave me joy. It was like a point on the horizon for me to focus on. So I did so every day that I could, and as days, months, and years passed, eating a chocolate chip cookie turned into wondering which bakery had the best ones, which evolved into wondering if I could bake better ones, which eventually turned into an all consuming obsession with baking, leading me to study pastry in Paris, and eventually opening my own bakery.

  Even after the bakery was running, I continued to follow each curiosity, watering every seed, indulging in all my daydreams, creating pathways so far, curving and spiraling in every which direction, that curiosities kept unfolding, and on and on they went. I started a pastry tour in Paris, wanting a reason to visit the city often.

  I began traveling to far flung parts of the world to write about food, which all stemmed from one small article I agreed to do for a tiny trade magazine about holiday baking. I included a couple anecdotes accompanying the recipes, which were the real project, but when editors of other publications read it, they liked it enough to suggest I write another article here or there.

  And I liked writing them enough to do it again and again. And this path eventually led me to writing a memoir. There were so many more moments just like this. But you see, along the way, following these tiny curiosities led me to discovering this thing called passion. The second time passion seemed to evade me was about five years ago, after I had sold my bakery and my memoir had been published.

  From the outside, it probably seemed like I was at the height of creating, the height of my summer. But really, I was withering from exhaustion. Winter had started to set in, and I needed to rest. Now, I could have been passionate about wintertime, curious about my own hibernation. I could have allowed it and even supported it, but instead I resisted with all the energy I had left.

  You see, as I described, being a passionate person had become a part of my identity. I thought showing how to live a passionate life was the value I had to give to others. Not seeing that my worth was and is me. So once more I found myself at crossroads where I chose not to follow my own path again and again.

  I was desperate to keep following the one path I thought others wanted me to take as if I had an obligation to them to be something for other people. And as I ignored my curiosity for slower, shorter days and longer nights, my passions were ignored too. I found myself so lost again, ignoring what I truly needed and desired, so much so that I no longer knew what that even was.

  I searched out of fear that the passion would never return. I remember waking up some mornings, aching for the passion I had once felt. I was consumed by an irritating feeling of somehow being disjointed, incomplete. I felt as if my legs were pointing the wrong way. Awkward and unnatural. And there was also this distinct feeling of agonizing fire in me, a raw desire to do something, to create something, to make something happen, the longing to be connected.

  But because I didn't know what I wanted to do, this fire was trapped inside, burning me, day after day. So I pushed my tired body to produce something, anything, until my engine went completely dead, and then there was silence. For years, it was so silent for so long that I actually wondered if I had imagined a thing such as passion, if I had fabricated it in my head, and it wasn't until I finally stopped searching, until I let go and eased into the dark, wet earth like a seed and accepted it.

  that I could not control the seasons. It wasn't until then that I became quiet enough to understand that passions can be still too. I realized that sometimes we don't need to journey on meandering paths for our passions. But that passions are also hiding in the gratitude of where we already are. That maybe our passions are not a destination, or a bucket list, maybe it's not what we do.

  But maybe passion is the way we look at and engage in our present reality as it is. Maybe it's how we live the small and big moments in our lives and everything in between. And so with that, all my paths. The ones I thought I should take, or otherwise, melted away, and with it, the desperation for a path did too.

  And so very slowly, I freed myself to be curious again, and to daydream once more.

  Thank you all so much for joining me, and thank you Natasha for sharing your story with us. I hope you got something helpful out of this daydreamer. If anything, just know that you're not alone. You see, we all struggle. We all mourn. We all yearn, question, laugh, and cry. No matter our age, background, or titles, at our core, we're all not so different, you and I.

  And here is next month's question, which we're going to be doing a little differently. I've invited the asker on the podcast to explore his question with us. He writes, I've been having trouble in the last year with patients. It's been a year of my inner voice stomping around going, shouldn't I already have blank by now?

  And I've recently noticed that this shouldn't I have already vibe that's been kicking around my head feels exactly like the emotions I was having in my senior years of high school and college. This feeling like I have to break out, break through. Almost like a coil being depressed, like an end and beginning together.

  It's a feeling that is simultaneously intense and utterly still. How can I overcome or manage this? If you have a short word of wisdom for this asker, write to us on the contact page on you and die podcast.com or dmm us on Instagram at you and I dot podcast. And of course, as always, please do submit your questions there too.

  I love receiving them. If you enjoyed this episode, like and subscribe to our channel, which helps others who might be interested find us. And feel free to share this episode with someone who may find it helpful as well. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm Jackie Kai Ellis and here are some words of wisdom.

  Maria here from I covet finding your passion is a deeply personal and sometimes evolving journey. It's not always a straightforward process. I have a few passions myself. And by the way, you can have more than one. Some passions followed me from childhood and some developed over time. Explore your curiosity, pay attention to those things that naturally pique your interest, and embrace discomfort.

  Sometimes passion lies just outside your comfort zone. And don't be afraid to try new things. What matters to you in life, your passion is often aligned with your core values. Engage with people who share your interests, join clubs or attend workshops, network with like minded individuals. Passion isn't about being the best, it's about finding deep fulfillment in what you do.

  Sometimes your intuition can guide you towards your passion. Trust your instincts. Overcome fear of failure, setbacks are a natural part of any journey. My latest passion developed while separating from my husband, of all times. I love to tell stories, so why not write a blog? Surely people would relate to my stories.

  It helped me through difficult times and it continues to be my passion. Passion is an evolution from trial and error. After all, no one is born with an assigned passion. See it as learning a skill set or relate it to personal values. Firstly, having immigrant parents, there is a lot of wisdom passed down around work ethics because they had to prove their worth in a new country.

  We must do everything with our heart and soul, regardless of whether we like it. Learn how to do everything with intention. If we perceive what we do as a mundane task, then it becomes insignificant. But if we see it as learning a skill set, Then it becomes more meaningful. Try widening the definition of what passion means, and start being passionate at developing skill sets.

  Secondly, passion can develop out of personal values. Identify what personal values are the pillars of your existence, and ask yourself what you want your legacy to be. When we do things that are aligned with our values, we will gradually and organically become passionate about it, because it resonates to our core.

  Remember, passion does not have to be tangible, because it could also be a journey of experiences or impressions that you leave behind. This episode was produced and edited by More Good Media.